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Link Quality Issues

184K views 307 replies 110 participants last post by  larryrph78 
#1 ·
Many of you especially the mouthpiece refinishers have been saying for a long time that all stock Links can be improved. Both isaxman and Sigmund451 have raised the issue of Link quality recently. Here is my recent experience.

I have 2 Otto Link STM NY 7*'s purchased 6 weeks apart from Saxquest and they are different! The difference is greater then I would expect for process variation! The first one (Link "A" which replaced a regular STM ) has a sound I really like but I heard the siren call of an even better piece. I will not part with Link "A" so I ordered a second one (Link"B") hoping! it would be equally as good. It could then be sent to MoJo for analysis and see what he recommends to improve it?

Link "A" has no baffle and a nice smooth floor from tip to bore. . Link "B" has a flat baffle extending out from the tip about ¼ inch before angling to the unfinished floor. At first I was thinking this was intentional, but it just may be sloppy finishing. It looks like it was hit with a grinder at the wrong angle giving it the effect of a short baffle. The suppliers have been constantly out of the popular sizes recently so the factory has likely been under some pressure for quantity which ALWAYS sacrifices quality.

Link "B" has wider rails and from the shank looks like it came from a different mold, but is the same basic design. I have been A-B…ing the two for 5 days. Link "B" does appear to sound brighter and harsher to my ear. I am being very picky here! Just changing rooms makes a much greater difference.

I cannot envision an easier blowing piece or a sound closer to what I am looking for then Link"A" I played Link "A" with a FL lig. for several days including church, concert band, and some jazz and have since switched back to the stock lig.. I thought the FL gave a slightly richer sound! but it was imparting a slightly breathy buzz that is not present with the stock lig. I ran a number of different reeds, but that's another story.

The FL now resides on my Soprano on a HR Otto Link 6* and shows promise of an easier blow and clearer tone.!
 
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#152 ·
One solution to the table problem-- the Jody Jazz DV NY-- the best tenor mouthpiece I have played in the last 42 years(ranks up there with my Link Tone Master and Doulble Ring/band Link refaced by the wonderful Brain Powell). I was skeptical about the open table design but whatever magic Jody does is alright by me. Can't wait for his new DV Bari mpc coming out this fall
 
#153 ·
glide1981 said:
This doesn't really hold water when you consider the aerospace industry is consistently machining difficult materials to tolerances in the 0.0001" range. Almost all production mills and lathes us coolant to prevent the material being worked from overheating.

EDIT: Note to self - When you think you have a great thing to say, finish reading the thread to see if the same point was brought up 5 posts after the one you are quoting.....
First, it's very expensive to machine extreme close tolerances although my mill is accurate to within one tenthousandth. Anyway, it hasn't been my experience that Links have a dip. One thing though, if there's a dip it's for one reason and one reason only, the machine tools geometry. Also, a lot of the old time refacers intentionally put a dip in the table because the thought was that reed swelled. More silliness. Glen johnson did that. I will add though, this thread is ridiculous, tolerances like what some of you guys are talking about just aren't necessary for mouthpieces and this thread is indicitive of the hyper-technical ignorance I see on here. Let's move on to something constructive. Phil
 
#155 ·
I could be totally out of my tree on this (and I admit first off that I don't know much about this stuff) but I was sitting with Wolfe Tannenbaum a few weeks ago and he told me that the dip in the table was there intentionally. He called it a "French dip" or something (he may have been referring to his lunch that day for all I know.. I wasn't really following him at that exact moment as it was about 4,000 degrees in Ft. Lauderdale that day and I had been hanging out with him for about four hours (I could not imagine spending my time better that day). Anyway, maybe I'll call him and ask what he was talking about but I think that Theo and Doc both covered it.
 
#161 ·
Wailin' said:
I have a STM 7* that only responds with a huff and puff. 7*'s are about .105.
Yet I play other mpc's of .110!
That's because of the difference in chambers. One of the biggest mistakes players make when buying a new piece is to get the same opening. When you go to a mouthpiece with a larger chamber you should drop down in facing. The facing is a continuation of the chamber. I see them as one

Uncle Phil
 
#164 ·
Phil Barone said:
That's because of the difference in chambers. One of the biggest mistakes players make when buying a new piece is to get the same opening. When you go to a mouthpiece with a larger chamber you should drop down in facing. The facing is a continuation of the chamber. I see them as one

Uncle Phil
Let's say you wanna go from a 6* STM to a 8*. How would you drop down in facing? I'm assuming from a 6 to a 8 is a larger chamber?
 
#166 ·
Re: LINK QUALITY ISSUES

As soon I can I will post tip rail pictures of two STM (a standard one and a NY model) Links I recently bought for comparison purposes. They are so different and irregular I could not belive to my eyes. I am very disappointed especially considering the 170 euro target price. Any other similar experience?

Stan
 
#167 ·
Re: LINK QUALITY ISSUES

That's the problem with the design of the metal link. It's soldered together in two halves. It's faced on a machine. It's created in a shop where if I'm not mistaken there isn't anyone that plays sax.

I consider them a good blank. If I was looking for a good one I'd have to have a dozen sitting in front of me. I've gone through a ton of metal links over the years. I've only found one that I consider really great. I sent that one off for a reface.

This is why I stick with hard rubber pieces. They are more consistent.....although the design is obviously different than metal and won't appeal to everyone.
 
#168 ·
Re: LINK QUALITY ISSUES

I have a "Super" Tone Master 8* and I'm reasonably happy with it, but to get some more projection I have wedged it with epoxy. Unfortunately, this comes at the expense of the classic "big Link" sound, and I'd like to return it to its original, epoxy-free condition. I'd also like to find something slightly less open (like an 8 or even a 7*). What other mouthpieces on the market would compare to a Super Tone Master in feel and fit, but have a much closer baffle right out of the box?
 
#174 ·
Re: LINK QUALITY ISSUES

I have a "Super" Tone Master 8* and I'm reasonably happy with it, but to get some more projection I have wedged it with epoxy. Unfortunately, this comes at the expense of the classic "big Link" sound, and I'd like to return it to its original, epoxy-free condition. I'd also like to find something slightly less open (like an 8 or even a 7*). What other mouthpieces on the market would compare to a Super Tone Master in feel and fit, but have a much closer baffle right out of the box?
I can re-make a new Link so you get both worlds. It's a lot of work but you get amazing results. Phil
 
#171 · (Edited)
I can almost say without a doubt that it's cosmetic only. In fact one could argue that it may even make your mouthpiece play better. You wouldn't believe what I've seen that would make you think a mouthpiece doesn't play but in fact plays fine.

Since the advent of the internet and newsgroups there's all these new mouthpiece experts proclaiming that everything should be perfectly symetrical and smooth, well, that's total nonsence. The reason being is that reeds are so asymetrical that it renders the importance of perfect facings, rails and chambers irrelevent. The facing mirrors the reeds so stop worrying what your piece looks like and blow. The air and sound doesn't see those minor imperfections and air flows over those things very easily. Phil
 
#173 ·
"The facing mirrors the reed." I don't understand, Phil, what you mean by that. I understand the reed mirrors the facing, in that it may conform to the facing. Is that what you mean?
 
#175 ·
Sorry for the late reply to this but I guess I didn't get an email notice. Conform, yes, I guess that's another way of putting it but as long as we're on the subject sometime take your neck off and look down the receiver of the horn. You'll see a huge metal rod sticking out a few inches down. I forget what it is but igf that doesn't hurt anything certainly little blems won't. PB
 
#176 ·
I played for years on a Strathon that I sealed in the brightest position. When I had my first lesson with Joe Viola, he asked me how I was getting the kind of sound out of the Strathon. Like other's mentioned you learn to play what you have, and your concept of sound is going to come through. Joe suggested that since my sound was similar to players who used a metal link, that I should try one out, and I like it very much. I got the same tone on a Hite, on a Berg, on a Strathon, and on my Link. A major goal of the mouthpiece is to get air into the horn, find one that feels good and use it.

I worked with a guy in the Navy Band in Newport who bought a new mouthpiece about every other month. For a week or two, he would sound different, then his old nasal sound would come back... why?? because of a) his concept of sound b) he never made an effort to get better, in his mind, it was the equipments job to create your sound.
 
#178 ·
When I come to threads like these I read about two pages and then become very thankful about how happy I am with my STM 7 I paid about 90$ for.

Also,

My mouthpieces all have slightly different length facings but it doesn't matter because we automatically, subconsciously, unknowingly or I suppose knowingly play reeds that work better on that particular facing or mouthpiece. Also, the saxophone leaves a lot of room for compensation, a LOT of room, so we also adjust with our embouchure and air stream. That's provided you know how to play. I've been saying around here for a while now, based from what I read, sometimes there's more time spent screwing around than practicing. STOP IT! Stop fumbling with equipment and put your nose to the grindstone if you really want to achieve the goal of being a good player. It's takes a lot of discipline and diligence to be even an average player so stop concerning yourself with two thousandths of an inch or some nonsense like that because the difference between reeds is going to easily eclipse or negate the difference between .002, dig?.
Listen to this man.
 
#181 ·
#183 ·
For along time I though I would never be able to play altissimo on tenor with my Link 8. Every day, my alto would enjoy those beautifully high stratosphere notes while my tenor could only sit in the corner and watch in awe. Then one day, when I played a Dukoff...all of the altissimo came out. And that point I came to the realization.....my link sucks
 
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