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Battle of The Vintage Saxophones

18K views 92 replies 35 participants last post by  JL 
#1 · (Edited)
I know and have heard of many people who swear by a certain vintage saxophone, most commonly the Mark VI. What are some that you know of? The most obvious and a few less, but still common vintage saxophones include
Selmer Mark VI
Selmer Balnced Action
Selmer SBA
Yanagisawa 880
Yamaha Purple Logo 62
Conn New Wonder Series I and II
Conn Transitional Models
Conn 6M, 10M, etc.
Buffet Super Dynaction
Buescher True Tone
Buescher Aristocrat
King Super 20
Martin
Which of these do you like best and why? Why are vintage saxophones so popular? What ones should I add to the list? Which vintage saxophones do you play?

SaxWiz
 
#2 ·
What ones should I add to the list?
Along with the Selmers, these are the 'most obvious' to me:

Buescher TT, Aristocrat, 400 (up to the mid '50s or so)
Conn 10M, 6M
King Super20
Martin

I'd put these (not on your list) at top of my list, aside from the MKVI & B.A.

Why are they so popular? Because they are great horns, when in good playing condition.
 
#5 ·
Bueschers have great intonation, is the best reason to love 'em.

JL's list are cream of the crop vintage horns.
I would add others like late '40s and '50s King Zephyr, Keilwerth series IV stencils like Couf Superba, Conn DJH Modified, Bundy Special
H. Genet ( made by Keilwerth, not the D&J brand)
 
#8 ·
You have to admit the Selmer USA alto and tenor 'pro-line' if you're going to include some of those others.

'Why are vintage saxes so popular?'

Because they offer certain qualities that once were taken for granted but now are not available in a new sax.
 
#23 ·
1saxman, this begs the question, "What do you believe are those qualities?" I'd like to hear your list.

'Why are vintage saxes so popular?'

Because they offer certain qualities that once were taken for granted but now are not available in a new sax.
 
#10 ·
I have a problem with the definition of "vintage". To me, a Mark VI is not "vintage". That horn is the basis for almost every new saxophone on the market today, save for the soprano. To me, "vintage" means the older horns, by design AND age . . . saxophones with split bell pads and left-side bell pads, saxophones that were made by the greats and not-so-greats before Selmer changed it all with the BA and MKVI.

I realize the vintage-definition has been discussed and cussed here for years. For someone my age, 1954 doesn't seem that long ago. For others, 1954 might as well have been when the US Civil War ended.

I have owned (and still own) several vintage saxophones from 1920's Bueschers, Martins, King, and Conns; 1930's and '40's saxophones from Conn, Selmer and Buescher, and new saxophones from Yamaha, Selmer, R&C, B&S, and Yanagisawa ranging from the 1950's to current, including Mark VI's in alto and soprano. Making a preferential list is silly, in my view. I have my favorites but they are such because they are well set-up and not just because they are a particular brand or model. DAVE
 
#20 ·
I agree. Vintage to me refers more to design elements as you mention. I think the term antique is appropriate, as in the furniture and automobile world simply means something produced over 25 years ago. By definition a Mark Vi is a modern horn for the exact reason you mentioned.
 
#11 ·
I simply mean what most people use define vintage. And at least you remembered the Mark VI Soprano keywork. However, it was actually the selmer Balanced Action, not the Mark VI, that was the basis for modern saxophones. Watch Matt Stoher's video on the selmer Balnced action for more info on that. I do not chose a instrument because of a brand or model, I chose what I like best. I generally do not find vintage saxophones all that impressive. It may be that the vintage saxophones I tried were not setup all that well, but that is why I made this post.

SaxWiz
 
#13 ·
For many people they can't get past the vintage ergos. And the Mark VI, with the full floating LH cluster, and offset lower stack, ushered in the modern saxophone design. The Balanced Action had many copycats too, even past the Mark VI era, but EVERY modern sax copies its basic design from the MARK VI, just as the saxes from the 1900s- 1940s copied their basic design off of Conn. Everyone mimics innovation!
 
#12 ·
I have yet to play an SML or a B&S, but have played many others on those lists :) While the SuperDynaction looked really good, its odd (not uncomfortable) ergos and hard to get altissimo really turned me off to it. I like my Superba II, but out of the truly vintage saxes, the Conn 30M was a joy to play! Followed very close by the Buescher TH&C! My fave modern Tenor though is ANY model of YANAGISAWA 880 and newer :)
 
#15 ·
Saying "most people" is reaching an unsupported conclusion. You'd be better off in not using such a subjective phrase as "vintage" in this discussion. In MY view, Mark VI's, even the sopranos, are not vintage. They may be old to some but their design is current. True, the sopranos MAY be yesterday's design, but they sure play well, for the most part. DAVE
 
#24 ·
What I meant by not that impressive was the ergonomics and the intonation. I have tried other vintage saxophones, but I cannot remember every single sax I have ever tried.

SaxWiz
Try some well set up vintage horns mentioned by others and tell us what you think.

The ones that you have played did not seem to make any positive impression on you, judging by your lack of comments.
I own several well set up examples of tenors mentioned and all of them are good horns.
It comes down to preference, really, and setup of course.

I don't see any battle when it comes to vintage horns, in my case, tenors. It is appreciation.
As I previously mentioned, well setup Bueschers have fabulous intonation.
 
#25 ·
While you're at it, add in the Martin and Buescher as well.

But I'm kind of curious where you're going with this. Do you want a list of vintage horns? A definition of 'vintage horn?' Our favorite vintage horn (in which case you'll end up with the list)? Or some specific info on these horns? All of that can be found many times over in the sub forums covering each of the main vintage brands.

It might help to be more specific in what you are asking.
 
#26 ·
Far be it from me to put a damper on the OP, but there are a lot of old saxophones discussed in the sub forums.

Even if this thread stays lively, there are bound to be lots of saxes of interest covered in the older threads, too:


(Saxophone) Makes and Models
Sub-Forums:

Buescher, Bundy, Conn, Evette & Schaeffer Buffet-Crampon, S.A., Holton, Keilwerth/H-Couf, King (HN White), Martin, Selmer, SML, Yamaha, Yanagisawa, Other A-J, Other K-Z, Misc. Saxophone Manufacturers, Sax vs. Sax
 
#37 ·
This applies to all not just soprano.
So you want us to make a list and discuss sopranos, altos, tenors, and baris for each of the vintage brands? Wouldn't it be wise to narrow it down a bit? Right now, here on the forum, there are thousands of posts covering each of these types of horns in various vintage models.

You can't compare altos to tenors, or baris to sopranos, etc. That's 'apples and oranges.' If it's comparisons you're after.

Once again, can you be more specific in what you're looking for? Am I the only one who can't quite figure that out?
 
#33 ·
Buescher's sopranos were primarily TrueTone models, although they may have made some early Aristocrat models, which were essentially TrueTones. Even as Buescher moved away from the "TrueTone" line, they kept the TrueTone logo on their saxophones for years. I am not an expert on them - others here have more knowledge of the whole Buescher line when Bueschers were superb instruments.

The Buescher TT had design changes over the 1920 years - the earlier ones had a different octave mechanisms and a different lever for G#, those changes (improvements?) coming around 1926 with the addition of a roller-touch on G#. Some say the later models are better but I think anyone evaluating any line of instruments needs to have played MANY to reach such a conclusion.

Buescher TT sopranos came curved, straight with a tipped bell (rare) and straight. I've owned three straight TT sopranos, all from the era after the addition of the roller G# touch. All were excellent instruments. My best vintage soprano now is a 1926 Martin Handcraft, more than equal to any of the TT's I've owned.

A recently added 1927 Conn NWII soprano is also an excellent player, the best Conn soprano I've owned or played, yet it it doesn't quite reach the level of the Martin, but that could be because of the individual instruments involved and not indicative of the whole line. Maybe after I have the Conn overhauled it could reach MY subjective level of excellence.

FWIW, I also had at one time a King Saxello. I moved it down the road for a number of reasons but I realize some love their Saxellos.

Of all the sopranos I own now, two Mark VI's are the best of the best - in MY opinion. DAVE
 
#36 ·
Can we imprison Selmer USA yet? :p
(they had it made, in other words, as are most mockeries of vintage American Horns by them)
Someone actually brought the BU-3 in while I was at a music store for an appraisal, my repairman and I had a laugh at it, it unsurprisingly had incredibly horrible intonation and build quality.
 
#39 ·
i'd like to take a crack at the "Why are vintage saxophones so popular?" question, Alex. Adolphe invented them to be field horns, but by the time the Hawk was getting his feet wet with Fletcher Henderson's outfit, said horn's potential for sublime expression was well understood. Craftsmen in Elkhart, Paris and elsewhere were using decades of experience to expertly assemble instruments that exquisitely responded to serious musician's experimentation and/or disciplined technique. Being made primarily of metal, these instruments have held up over the decades with only the occasional refurbishment required. And though there have been some technical variation introduced, the fingering remains primarily identical. In short, a good saxophone that is not mangled remains a good saxophone. And what were considered the finest saxophones each decade over the past century remain among the finest saxophones. A trait shared by any number of musical instruments. New or vintage, caveat emptor, but there is a whole world, and history, of choice.
 
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