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Underbite

8K views 17 replies 10 participants last post by  swperry1 
#1 ·
Hello I've been playing saxophone and I have an underbite. I can't align bottom and front teeth together and I feel like it affects my sound, do you guys have any tips?
(also I have skype if you want to see for yourself)
 
#2 ·
It should not affect your sound, but can mean articulation is more difficult - especially if you have quite a large tongue.

The first thing to try is an embouchure that means taking in less of the mouthpiece (leaves more room for your tongue), and to this end you may want to experiment with mouthpieces as ones with a short facing curve can work better with such an embouchure.

EDIT: Arrgh I misread underbit for overbite!

But the same may well apply.
 
#3 ·
I have a cross bite and that makes it difficult enough. Since most (like >95%) of people, and therefor most saxophone players have some degree of an overbite, most of the stuff out there doesn't talk about this. You really just have to make things work for you and develop an embouchure that gets the job done. Because of the protruded resting and active jaw position involved with having a crossbite or underbite, it forces you to take in more mouthpiece and expose more of the reed than you might want to just to get your lower lip in a suitable playing position. I suppose in the long run it affords you more potential for a bigger sound, but until you're ready to eat the whole mouthpiece it doesn't help as a beginner.
 
#4 ·
it forces you to take in more mouthpiece and expose more of the reed than you might want to just to get your lower lip in a suitable playing position. I suppose in the long run it affords you more potential for a bigger sound, but until you're ready to eat the whole mouthpiece it doesn't help as a beginner.
Which is the opposite of what I said when I thought the post was about overbite, so that makes sense.

But still it's about finding the mouthpiece that works best for the embouchure that the over/under bite kind of forces you into for the best articulation (which is really what counts)
 
#5 ·
In theory the only thing that should matter is the point on the reed where you enable it to vibrate with support by your lower jaw/lip. It should be possible to keep your upper and lower jaw in (your) natural position. If you you have an underbite your top teeth will just be more to the tip of the mouthpiece.
 
#8 ·
As a mechanical engineer, I tend (as do many others even non-engineers) to default to purely mechanical assessment of the problem... e.g. the geometry of lungs, tongue, mouth, head, body, MPC, horn...
But it should probably be approached more as: three more or less equal parts, mechanical, physiological (e.g. a Dr./Dentist/Orthodontist assessment), and ultimately an artistic assessment... listening and feeling (physically and spiritually).
That said, I've found that issues at the front of my oral cavity and with its shape have a great impact on the rear of it. So, yes, some effect on articulation is likely to be present, but also note whether there is a conflict between tip of tongue being able to freely articulate, and rear of tongue impeding throat opening and airstream... that's been my issue since I was a 12-year-old student, though I only realized it 50 years later, through the 3-part analysis mentioned above.
Whether you have issues to the rear of the oral cavity, and, if so, how to deal with those fore and aft issues, or just the tip of your tongue if that is all, will require individualized study, adaptation, and perhaps therapeutic means, e.g. orthodontia, breathing exercises, tongue muscle development for adaptation, etc.
In my case, I have neither under- nor overbite, but I realized early on that clean articulation of more difficult passages, esp. in the low register, was difficult, and that my airstream was a problem there. Tonguing always made me feel as though my throat was closing off, a big problem.
It was much later that I realized that my jaw/teeth shape, particularly at the sides, was a huge aggravating factor. Until then, it felt as though my tongue was too long, such that, when tonguing, it would close off my throat, in the same way that some people cannot pronounce "L", getting more of a "G" sound... not a problem for me in speaking, but very much so with the MPC in my mouth. I then learned that my teeth do not form a wide "U" shape, which I think would be ideal, but rather a "U" with the sides pressed in and a more pointed shape at the bottom. I think this can be caused by thumb-sucking, but I've learned that mouth-breathing can be a major contributor. I was a mouth-breather as a child, and I think also as an adult, while sleeping, until I got a CPAP machine with nose-only mask.
Anyway, the narrowness of my oral cavity has, I'm convinced, been my problem, rather than a "too long" tongue.
Thus, your underbite may or may not be your only problem, and it may not be much of a problem at all.
Bottom line: You may (and probably do) have more than one issue, and should consult with a professional. I would start with an orthodontist. But there may be alternatives to their solution... think outside the box and you may come up with breath work, tonguing exercises, who knows... yoga? Everyone is different physically, and has resuliting limitations. Many of the greatest players have overcome theirs with simple study, analysis, practice, practice, practice, and adaptation. Did I mention practice?
All the best in overcoming any issues.
PS: Angle of MPC to mouth is important, and is also a very individual thing. My gut says that your optimum may be a more upward angle. But in any case, a sufficiently tight neck strap, on anything other than soprano, is critical for all players, and often neglected. This allows you to maintain alignment of your head/neck/body, with resultant optimum air column. Getting that right with a more extreme MPC to mouth angle may be a challenge, but is worth attaining.
 
#10 ·
Anyway, the narrowness of my oral cavity has, I'm convinced, been my problem, rather than a "too long" tongue.
I may be wrong, but I believe it would be rare to find a too long tongue (per se) as the tongue can be made shorter. Problem is as it gets shorter, that mass has to go somewhere so it gets wider. And if your mouth cannot accomodate that widening so easily, therein lies a problem.

So the two things are really interlinked.

As I said above there is a possible solution, which is to take in less mouthpiece if feasible, which may mean finding a different mouthpiece and radically rethinking your embouchure.
 
#11 ·
You don't need to align them, just keep your jaw in a comfortable, relaxed position. You will find that your top teeth are closer to the tip than people often recommend, no big deal. One adjustment that you might consider is having the strap hook on you saxophone moved up a bit (or having a second one added above the original). This will make the angel the mouthpiece points at you flatter which might be more comfortable.
 
#14 ·
I think the best approach may well be Morgan's - to just relax and let your top teeth fall where they will, and become comfortable and develop YOUR best sound.
And if the oral cavity really is somehow "too small" or shaped non-optimally, as Pete says one could learn to just take in less mouthpiece... But is my case what I think I'm doing to overcome the latter condition - I just noticed this the other night) is to tongue using a spot further back on the top of my tongue, rather than the "textbook" tip or slightly aft of the tip. My ability to play rapid-fire staccato may indeed suffer, but I have no need to much of that. I don't want to be Frank Trumbauer. On clarinet, where I can envision perhaps needing to do some of that, I actually can use the tip of my tongue, due to the smaller mouthpiece and more downward angle.
Again, Morgan has a point: you got what you got. And I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing even some aspect of your physiology is way out at the extreme. There is so much variation - no two people are anywhere near alike other than identical twins - that there can't be an "optimum". Maybe just an optimum way for each of us - defined by each of us - to use what we have as individuals. That really is what makes the greats, great, I think.
 
#15 ·
Maybe just an optimum way for each of us - defined by each of us - to use what we have as individuals. That really is what makes the greats, great, I think.
Every player has their own individual sound and much of that is predicated on our unique physiology. That's one of the cool things about sax, IMHO.
 
#17 ·
Actually, having the lower teeth and lip more forward is usually viewed as a positive way to improve tone, resonance and projection. I had to learn that method, recommended to me by a sax player who played dance marathons in the 1930s after I bit through under my lower lip from using the 'clarinet' embouchure and playing several shows a day. He said they called it the 'pooch mouth' back then. Whatever, it's widely used today. The upper teeth may barely hang onto the tip of the beak sometimes but the lower teeth are advanced, along with the lip, which is more curled 'out' than 'in'. This simply frees up more of the reed to resonate, but it really does a lot more than that; it makes your tone darker and more 'liquid'. Users find they have to push the mouthpiece in more to not be flat. It can change your whole way of playing as you tend to lay back and go with that lush, dark tone. Sounds to me like you are very fortunate in apparently being set-up by nature to quickly adapt this embouchure.
 
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