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Proper way to end notes?

8K views 64 replies 14 participants last post by  dctwells 
#1 ·
I've been taking lessons with a new teacher for the summer, and one thing he said he noticed was that I was stopping notes with my tongue on staccato notes. I thought this was correct, but the way he would like me to end my staccato notes without the tongue, which seems backwards from what I thought was right because my air would have to stop moving forward. Isn't the air supposed to be constantly going either in or out, with the tongue controlling articulation? I don't abruptly end long notes with my tongue, but I thought I was playing staccato correctly. Of course, I'm going to ask him to clarify at my next lesson, but until then... any help clarifying this is much appreciated.
 
#2 ·
Your teacher is correct --at least for many contexts -mainly classical ones. It enables you to shape the sound more and give the notes more character (e.g. a light feeling) when you can control the rate of sound decay with your breath. Obviously, the technique is more useful on staccato notes at slower tempos. After a certain speed, there's simply no time left for any sort of meaningful breath/sound decay because its time for the next note already. Have your teacher demonstrate some different characters of staccato notes for you and it may make more sense.

In jazz, there are more situations where stopping the note with the tongue is appropriate. It's a different style of articulation and phrasing and has its own set of subtleties and conventions.
 
#6 ·
Your teacher is correct --at least for many contexts -mainly classical ones. It enables you to shape the sound more and give the notes more character (e.g. a light feeling) when you can control the rate of sound decay with your breath. Obviously, the technique is more useful on staccato notes at slower tempos. After a certain speed, there's simply no time left for any sort of meaningful breath/sound decay because its time for the next note already. Have your teacher demonstrate some different characters of staccato notes for you and it may make more sense.

In jazz, there are more situations where stopping the note with the tongue is appropriate. It's a different style of articulation and phrasing and has its own set of subtleties and conventions.
This is pretty much exactly what my teacher told me, but I guess what is confusing me is the fact that this is a faster, technical passage. Is this still correct?
 
#10 ·
Staccato actually means "light and separate" and you don't stop the note with your tongue. You simply stop blowing and let the note naturally decay, which creates the lightness and separation.

The key to being able to play staccato cleanly and musically is air support and abdominal muscle control. Here's a great exercise for learning how to play staccato.... it comes from Trevor Wye, one of the truly great teachers on any instrument IMO. I use it with students all the time and its a good one:

- Select a musical passage, preferrably of eight notes (scale, pattern, etc.)

- Play "staccato" at a medium tempo, but without using your tongue AT ALL. All notes begin with an air attack.....you should feel your stomach muscles working to produce each individual note. Practice this until you are able to really control the beginning and and of each note in a clean, musical way.

- Now play the same passage but LIGHTLY TONGUE each note, continuing to let each note naturally decay by stopping the air. You should still feel your abdominals supporting each individual note, the tongue is really secondary.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Staccato actually means "light and separate" and you don't stop the note with your tongue. You simply stop blowing and let the note naturally decay, which creates the lightness and separation.

The key to being able to play staccato cleanly and musically is air support and abdominal muscle control. Here's a great exercise for learning how to play staccato.... it comes from Trevor Wye, one of the truly great teachers on any instrument IMO. I use it with students all the time and its a good one:

- Select a musical passage, preferrably of eight notes (scale, pattern, etc.)

- Play "staccato" at a medium tempo, but without using your tongue AT ALL. All notes begin with an air attack.....you should feel your stomach muscles working to produce each individual note. Practice this until you are able to really control the beginning and and of each note in a clean, musical way.

- Now play the same passage but LIGHTLY TONGUE each note, continuing to let each note naturWhen playing in an orchestra the conductor will give extra considerations to single reed players, as opposed to the other winds in fast tonguing passages . It's common for Clarinets to tongue every 2nd note. ( overture to the Bartered Bride ) Eg. We have to close the reed off with our tongue to execute a clean staccato, which is a lot more work than just interrupting the air stream. There are of course other methods to obtain an interrupted air stream/staccato, (double tonguing) using the back of your throat. ie. Ta.Ha. ( not accepted in orchestral playing) But for a clean staccato the only way is to use your tongue to close off the reed. So not sure of the staccato passage you are referring to, but the normal rule in Classical playing is if it's too fast for you to single tongue, then you tongue every 2nd note.ally decay by stopping the air. You should still feel your abdominals supporting each individual note, the tongue is really secondary.
Trevor Wye is a flute player. the only way to get a clean staccato with a single reed instrument is to stop the reed off with the tongue.
PS. You can separate the notes just using the fingering, but it's not staccato.

 
#25 ·
Keep us posted re. What your teacher says, with shortening the note without the tongue. But I imagine he will tell you it's just another articulation in your armoury. If you had been playing for longer its something that you would have picked up by just listening. Despite the fact that some think you need a teacher to tell you everything. In fact you can learn many different nuances in music if you use your ears. But it's true some people need to be told everything.
 
#26 ·
My opinion is that the initial technique to learn is that staccato notes should be stopped with the tongue, that way yup can maintain an even and consistent airstream. However I think it's useful t also be able to stop a note without your tongue, just as it can be useful to start a note without your tongue. It's all down to style and context.
 
#32 ·
I'm reminded of the story of Frank Sinatra asking Luciano Pavarotti about how he stopped a high note. Pavoratti replied 'I just close-a my mouth'.
 
#36 ·
There's a tempo at which, even if marked staccato, does not have enough space between the notes for there to be a detectable separation between notes.
 
#37 ·
Depends who is playing. Sixteenth notes at 116 to 120 is the norm for most Concertos, as I said earlier the Overture to the Bartered Bride is marked staccato for the wind players, with a tempo at about 180 depending on the Conductor. So they allow only the Clarinets to tongue every 2nd note. WBTW is the norm for very fast tempos.
PS. Charlie Parkers articulations don't work.
 
#39 ·
Maybe in a B or C orchestra. Players in A orchestras are expected to be able to double tongue.
 
#55 ·
I just figured out that when I play staccato slowly unless I want that T at the end I play em like Tuh. At some point in the middle I switch to Tut probably as been noted here as there isn't time to do anything else.
 
#56 ·
dctwells
Staccato actually means "light and separate" and you don't stop the note with your tongue. You simply stop blowing and let the note naturally decay, which creates the lightness and separation.

The key to being able to play staccato cleanly and musically is air support and abdominal muscle control. Here's a great exercise for learning how to play staccato.... it comes from Trevor Wye, one of the truly great teachers on any instrument IMO. I use it with students all the time and its a good one

:https://app.box.com/s/8e9z8tcsppymyhdeu7v82ik9r3g4e0ps
@ dctwells
This is a rec with the ipad of the staccato marked oboe solo I played on Soprano Sax.{ as I am the owner of such an instrument} to achieve the staccato I used my tongue. Still waiting on your rec. Using your strange explanation on how a staccato is achieved. I believe you are also an owner of a Soprano Sax.
 
#58 ·
Most of the people here seemed pretty spot-on with my teacher's answer. He said in most classical music, he prefers to end staccato notes without the tongue (if there is time) because it gives them more of a "lift" at the end so that they sound more separated instead of just being cut off abruptly with the tongue. The reason he was wanting me to play them this way in this faster piece, in particular, is because the staccato notes are thrown in the middle of slurred runs, so it gives them more of a lighter feeling, which makes sense. It's always a bit of a weird feeling when something you just assumed to be the proper way turns out to be different, but I'm glad that he brought it up so I could learn from it. Thanks for the help on here as well!
 
#59 · (Edited)
The problem is with most Classical music particularly playing a Concerto there is no time. 1st movements are around 120. About the same as the Oboe solo. The problem with a forum is there a lot of talk about what is correct, but not a lot of playing examples. Especially these days when it is so easy to record your own clips.
PS. But the issue here is the interpretation of what a staccato note is. If you are playing a solo you can do what you like within reason. When you play in an Orchestra or ensemble, that's a different story.
As was pointed out in #44 by Pete Thomas.
 
#65 ·
Absolutely! Don't forget to make sure you have the major scales and chromatic scale down as well. I've judged the Maine All State auditions for a few years now .... I'm always surprised how many people don't make it in, even though they nailed the étude, because they blew it on something relatively easy like the chromatic scale. The scales are worth a surprising amount of points....get perfect scores on them and you'll be in great shape going into the étude. Good luck!
 
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