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Middle note embouchure

2K views 9 replies 4 participants last post by  bruce bailey 
#1 ·
Hi. Been playing over 10 years but struggled with my embouchure for years. It is slowly coming together but I still struggle with some of the middle notes. particularly A, B and C. Bottom is fine and top OK and progressing but the middle is kinda harsh trumpetty ...you know what I mean. No good teachers for miles that I know of. I do all the right stuff I think...long note and practice the high register without the octave key. Any other exercises worth trying that may address this.
 
#2 ·
I am no expert. Your comment just sounds like something I would have written a year or two ago.

Have you checked your horn for leaks? Assuming no leaks...

I used to play trumpet, and my sax sound has been really brassy and wanted a very woodwind type sound. What has helped me most is learning to control my airstream. This involves diaphragm, throat and oral cavity. Assuming you are supporting appropriately with the chest cavity, this was not my problem. What helped me most was positioning my tongue as if saying vowels. With trumpet, I learn to place my tongue as if saying “tall”. I found with soprano sax that I needed to place my tongue as if saying “tar”, “new” or “tee”. I also played quietly for a while and only got louder as I could control the tone within the sound I wanted.
 
#3 ·
If the bad notes are middle A up to middle C#, it would be that the upper octave vent is not closing well from the lever. When you play G and lower, the G key reinforces the closing. Hold the horn without playing it and see if both octave pads near the cork are closing. If it is a two neck model, you may be able to rotate the neck a bit to correct or try the other neck.
 
#4 ·
If the OP can let us know whether or not his soprano is in proper order that would be a big plus. It could be as something as simple a tiny leak from anywhere where a key remains closed at rest (octaves, palm keys, side RH keys, etc) or some minor resealing or swedging has to be applied to the upper stack keys. Something as simple as readjusting spring pressure to closed keys often goes overlooked on larger horns because barring a real under pressured seal, it can be played through. On soprano however it is going to provide a miserable experience similar to that of a clarinet that is leaking.
 
#5 ·
Hi. Apologies...I should have said that I think that the instrument is in good order but have not had it checked thoroughly. I am in mid Scotland and good techs are hard to find. I have a fairly new Yani SC 992. M/pc is a Selmer classic and a Yani. I am a recent convert to Marco reeds. Could be a minor leak as I don t have a problem with my tenor.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Glad to see you came back to answer that clearly. Let's just say to Bruce's point that you can play middle and upper C# to A with the G# key open to change the character and pitch ever so slightly. What happens in newer horns is sponginess when the A key presses the Bb bis into place; it's almost invariably never perfect from the default factory setup. Maybe you're playing through a slight leak there OR, and here is the other major problem in the upper stack, the C key may not be in perfect adjustment with the fingered C & B keys and thankfully on modern horns there are reliable small adjustment screws that engage the C to close. If all of that is ok check to see that there is enough spring pressure on the G key to keep the octave closed with just enough pressure to keep the lower octave pip sealed for the upper middle register. If that also passes the check list, your tech will see if everything that I described in my other post about loosely sealing closed pads (side RH C & Bb trill keys, RH high E and F# keys, and the LH palm keys. You can reach over right handed and press down each of these keys as you play all of middle C# to A. Please bare in mind that a lot of the mechanical advances on modern sopranos are also so beautifully miniaturized that they require additional attention. I hope what I had to say is helpful to you.
 
#6 ·
Get someone to help you; doesn't need to be a musician! Play the notes where the problem is while having your helper press down on various keys. Once you find the one that is causing the problem, there it is! I really suspect that it is the LOWER of the two octave pads. There is one sort of between the octave lever and the mouthpiece. They both should be closed when the octave key is not pressed. I REALLY think that it is the lower one since playing G# and lower, the G key holds that little pad shut. When the G key is not pressed down, C#, C, B, Bb and A in the low register will jump the octave if this pad is leaking. A minor cork adjustment should fix this. If you find that fixes it, you can post some photos of the area and I can give you a hint as where you need to glue in a small shim.
 
#9 ·
Hi. Thanks for all the advice. I decided that the problem was beyond my level of skill and took it to Bryce Ferguson in Edinburgh. He made a couple of adjustments to the left hand keys (it may be my imagination but this seems to have affected the tuning of the high E, Eb, F and F#) The light test showed that all the keys on the right hand had leaks. He thinks that the bell joint has been shifted. The instrument is flawless looking so it has not been dropped. The thing is that the lower notes appear to play well although he reckons the action is heavy. I personally think that the action is perfect (had a Yamaha 475 before this). The pads look fine but he reckons that the lower pads will need changed because when they are re positioned they will not fit. Cost would be £80-£160. I am in short supply of small change at the moment so have put my YTS 62 up for sale but Bryce tells me it needs a re pad...damn.
However....am I right in saying that the condition of the lower keys should not affect the higher keys?
 
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