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How Do You Survive The Blues/Rock Jam Session Sound Storm?

12K views 91 replies 32 participants last post by  turf3 
#1 ·
Right now I'm getting ready for the blues/rock jam session tonight hosted by my friend Larry Smith and his band. I'm going to wear earplugs this time because last week I thought I was gonna go bonkers. I've played with these guys before but at other jam sessions and it was the first time I played with Larry's own group at this club and it had to be the loudest jam I've played at yet. Larry is a good and tasteful guitarist and it's not because he is so loud but because of the club's acoustics I think.

It's a bar that is a big long room with wooden paneling and giant flat screen Televisions on all the walls. there is no curtain behind the stage but just a flat wall with another giant screen on it and piled up old oil drums on both sides to give a sporty garage or race track look. Those screens are clearly great reflectors of sound as are the metal oil drums. End result was that it was like being in a giant storm of sound, with the wind coming from the maniacal guest drummer I went on with, pounding away right behind me.

That said, a couple of the guitarists who came to shred have got to be be deaf judging from the volume and intensity they played at. And they weren't young guys either. One guy was at least mid 60's but playing like he was 20 and there was no tomorrow....probably to prove that he's still got lead in his pencil. :bluewink:

But I love playing the blues so I need to find some way to have a noise-free bubble around me, yet be onstage and jamming.

Anybody else experience this type of venue and have any solutions or suggestions?

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#3 ·
When people other than the jammers (who typically don't spend much per head at the bar) stop coming, they'll stop the jam. All the players who don't know how to use a bit of self-control in the dynamics department will complain that no one appreciates good live music, then there'll be nowhere to play. In the meantime, and in the interests of keeping the jam alive...It is the jam-master's job to police the volume when the house band and all invited players are on stage. I've been to two jams where the host asked people to exit the stage after being warned for not complying with volume requests. Most of the sessions I've been to that are regularly over-the-top loud tend to be lacking really good players anyway. Is the level of playing involved worth the hearing damage? Are you good enough friends with the host to help him understand that good musicians won't show up--especially on any instrument other than guitar--if it's too loud and over-crowded crowded on stage for people to even hear what you have to say.
 
#5 ·
The order of playing is not how high on the sign up sheet you are but who they put you together with because the guy from the host band running the jam usually makes groups that he think will work well together for blues and/or rock. So sometimes I get up there early and other times later on. It all depends on who shows up and how well the host band knows you. (I suppose if they think (or know) that you suck, you might be waiting all night.....LOL)

Actually tonight I know that I playing with a really good bottle neck guitar player, Aiden McGinnity. We've played together before at a different jam and we already messaged each other about what song's we're going to play tonight. Not sure when we'll go on or who else will be with us but at least a bassist and drummer. I know for a fact that he wears earplugs, which is what hipped me to using them tonight for a change. He's a really nice guy too, but his Irish accent is sometime a bit thick for me to understand in a noisy bar. I just smile a lot.
 
#10 ·
No, thank God, it's not that strange because the sound is off. But bizarrely, IMO, the screens are on because it's a Sports Bar. The Grizzly Bar....get it. The only sport around here really is futbol....soccer to the yanks.

Last week they were showing some South American football championship games while we were playing. I just ignored it and accept it as the Spanish mental illness of wanting to see soccer 12 months a year. And really, as fanatical as they are here, it's nothing compared to many other countries like the UK, Italy and in South America.

However at 1:20 the bartender made a sign to Larry to wind the gig up because the jam only went to 1:30. But what surprised me is that like clockwork the band ended the last song exactly at 1:30 on the dot....not an instant later. Instantaneously the sound came on at full volume for the televisions as the final match between Argentina and Colombia was starting. It was weird to say the least. Kind of like Cinderella's coach turning into a pumpkin.

The bassist shook his head and quipped to me "Look how punctual we are here now They turned the match on at exactly 1:30 exactly as if we were in England.¨I cracked up because nothing here starts on time, least of all Television programs, so it really was strange to me.
 
#7 ·
The hotel and apartments surrounding the venue where the local blues jam is held have called so many times about the noise that now the host's of the jam have to regularly police the jammers about volume levels.

It has worked out well. I can't remember the last time it was obnoxiously loud. Maybe 2 years ago when they first moved to the new venue.

Always a good time at The Upper Deck.
 
#9 ·
there is no curtain behind the stage but just a flat wall with another giant screen on it and piled up old oil drums on both sides to give a sporty garage or race track look.
That room sounds like a real nightmare, acoustically. A major pet peeve of mine is the fact there are venues with live music (generally loud) and they do absolutely nothing to help the acoustics. It wouldn't be so frustrating if it wasn't so easy to simply throw something up on the walls, especially behind the stage, to help absorb some of the sound.

Anyway, beyond that, and even with good acoustics, the only hope is to have a jam master who can keep the players in line, volume-wise. Otherwise, nothing can be done.
 
#19 ·
Lewis, there was a monitor but I wasn't sure exactly who it was monitoring. I think I was hearing the stage mikes through the general speaker more than through it, but I could hear myself pretty well last night. However when I got there at 11:45 they were already into their opening set, so I don't know how they did the sound check or what they checked. As just a guy going to jam I don't think it is my place to start questioning the host bandleader about that too much or suggesting how to do it for that setting or for me. I myself don't know much about any of that anyway but this summer I'm going to take the opportunity of being in the USA to buy a IEM setup with a clip on bell mic so it's no longer hit and miss or dubious at best.

Whatever the case you must realize that for a jam gig at a small club like this, the pay must be abysmal and surely not enough to pay for a sound man. The bar owner surely isn't to be trusted and Larry's group for these gigs is just him, their bassist and drummer. For a gig that goes from 10·30 until 2:30 or so... when I left last night at that hour they were still playing....for 3 guys, I doubt they were getting much at all in this city. So paying someone to do the board is out of the question. They're lucky to get gigs like this because the house is not making a whole lot on the drinks they sold last night, especially when they kick back one to each person who jammed. Yes the players bought drinks too but no bar is getting rich paying the light bill here in Spain to sell 4 cases of beer.

And that's the trouble with jam sessions here...people just don't go unless it is a big name band. Even though they pay to go to those sessions and this is free, the only people who come regularly are the jammers and their friends (once or twice at most) and the odd person there who had no place else to go and figured hearing some music while tossing one or two back was an o.k. idea.

Captain, I don't think JIA was complaining about not being able to hear himself so much as the overall noise level assault on his ears/head/mind (he can correct me if I misinterpreted). I've played in venues such as he describes and believe me it's pure hell unless the band plays at a reasonable volume. Sort of like playing inside a large metal drum.

soybean, I think I'll check out those ear erasers. Looks like they have them at radio shack. I've tried earplugs in the past, but never any high-end models. I never liked the ones I used because they blocked out too much. Do these really allow you to hear enough to play?
Yes JL you got it spot on. I could hear myself pretty much....last night more so without that maniac drummer from last Friday behind me (we were playing Bob Marley songs and he was beating the drums loud enough to be heard back home in Jamaica where he is from).......but the surround sound of the band is what makes it hard to really judge the nuances and volume level of my own playing. Well, maybe "nuances" is being a bit too refined for talking about playing the blues on a Comm III with a Metallite M9 and a Plasticover 3.5 with a guitar shredder by my side and getting up there into altissimo and what passes for my rudimentary growling. But you know what I mean I think.

Last night I wore my earplugs but ended up using them mostly when I was sitting out in front and not on the stage playing. Mine are Alpine Music Safe ones that come with two inserts to get different degrees of attenuation. I tried the highest db cutters last year in combo rehearsal a couple of times....11 piece combo....and it was way to much for me to be able to play properly and hear the bass and judge my level in the unison parts where we are playing ppp or crescendos etc.

I tried the medium inserts last night but ended up pulling them out right after playing half of a song because I didn't hear things clearly enough even with the loud guitar. I think the guitar amps are directed out to the audience more and so on stage it was not bad at all last night. Out at the tables in front however it was just too loud for me to take it and I put them back in while waiting to be called up again. I think, as JL or someone said earlier in the thread, this is something a band needs to try to control because there are many people who really dig loud bands but there are others who want to sit up close but can't stand the volume up there for too long. Since the blues audience here seems to be more than half people who are middle aged or older, that crowd is one that no longer can take the decibels like when they were young. I know that's my case for sure.

Re: those ear erasers, they look really good and they aren't that pricey so I might get a set. Does anyone here who has them know the difference between the full set at $79 and the basic $49 ones? Do you need all the extra parts or will the basic set work just as well?

Those and and IEM are going on my shopping list for the summer so I'll be ready in September to play without this problem....I hope.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Captain, I don't think JIA was complaining about not being able to hear himself so much as the overall noise level assault on his ears/head/mind (he can correct me if I misinterpreted). I've played in venues such as he describes and believe me it's pure hell unless the band plays at a reasonable volume. Sort of like playing inside a large metal drum.

soybean, I think I'll check out those ear erasers. Looks like they have them at Guitar Center. I've tried earplugs in the past, but never any high-end models. I never liked the ones I used because they blocked out too much. Do these really allow you to hear enough to play?

edit: They have them at Guitar Center (not Radio Shack, as I typed originally). Just got a pair and I'll try them out on the next loud volume situation.
 
#16 ·
Captain, I don't think JIA was complaining about not being able to hear himself so much as the overall noise level assault on his ears/head/mind (he can correct me if I misinterpreted). I've played in venues such as he describes and believe me it's pure hell unless the band plays at a reasonable volume. Sort of like playing inside a large metal drum.
Yes....you are right JL....my mistake.
I guess that this situation is so typical of the bands I play with that I have just come to accept the volume.
I spent my working life with many hours spent in engine test houses...now THAT is noisy, even with ear plugs....a loud rock band is quiet by comparison....a question of degree perhaps. :)
 
#15 ·
When I used to attend blues jams sessions, I just declined to go on stage with out-of-control guitars and drums. I would sit in the audience with my ears plugged. When called, I might even say, "No thanks. It's too loud." I made friends with the less obnoxious players, and tried to arrange to play with them. Lots of times I left early.

If you can't beat 'em, don't join 'em.
 
#17 ·
I have zero experience as a band player, but as a patron I've had to get up and leave places where the music was so loud it was buzzing my eardrums like an over driven distorted speaker cone. I just don't know how people can stand it that loud. When the audience needs ears plugs... that ain't enjoyable. I wish club owners and bands would take that into account.
 
#21 ·
+1. I know I am not a young guy anymore but I never liked a concert where I can feel my eardrums vibrating. At that point I think it has nothing to do with the music and that is irritating to me. But, if I'm getting paid like JIA, or being asked to play, I'm popping in the earplugs! I haven't been in this situation, but I'd give it a go if the chance came up. Good for you sticking in there Jazz Is All!
 
#20 ·
I stay home and practice for the paying gigs (mostly jazz). Should one of the paying gigs include one of the noisy rock band jams you are speaking of, I know in advance to bring the yellow foam hunting ear plugs and plenty of beer money. Lol
 
#25 ·
I enjoy being able to hear. I don't want what's left of my hearing to be destroyed by another bad or mediocre guitar player making up for his musical short comings with volume. Besides those situations are often devoid of any musical sensitivity or true interaction between players. Not fun for me. I can't understand why you would do it just to play but then I'm not you and everyone is different.:)
 
#29 ·
I am a rather young-looking geezer, I'll have you know. So watch the aspersions, o.k? :twisted:

As to women, they are always good to look at especially since my wife is at home asleep in bed and couldn't care less. And they can hear me because I see them clap and sometimes they smile at me and say something about it. For example, this really hot 30ish blonde come up to me at a jam back in the winter and gushed all over about how much she enjoyed my playing and how much she loves blues saxophone playing and bla bla. As I was headed to the bar to get my freebie at that moment and I though she was crossing the floor to go to the can, but instead she stopped right in front of me, which you know, startled me because I thought she didn't see me crossing her path and was going to bump into me by accident.

So we went to the bar together where she had her drink. I only saw one drink there and that was a heartening sign. We started to chat...she was quite chatty, a tourist from the UK, enjoying Barcelona and really enjoying going out to hear "good live music", which I was clearly part of creating according to her. She asked me about me and that was where that idea began to formulate in my mind about maybe, just maybe, getting to leave with her after the session was through when............wouldn't you know it, the handsome swashbuckling tenor player of my fantasy suddenly turned into a pumpkin when this guy comes up and she introduces him as her husband.

Ha, that brought me back to the real world of being an old guy with a youthful imagination and no costume or makeup to pull off the illusion. Turns out the hubby also thought my playing was great, but I didn't get into any fantasies about him.... LOL. So I went back up on stage and played a whole bunch more songs and believe it or not, that couple stay there and dug everything we played and closed the place. I had to feel good about it because that was at least two people who really did get off on the music (or maybe were tone deaf) even if it didn't include the hot blonde turning out to be the gig of my dreams. :(
 
#31 ·
Thanks Selmer. Fun is the name of the game for me. And meeting new people to play with as well as playing ones I already know and get on well with is a big part of it too. That's how I met Mike Shannon who ran the first jam I used to play at (since defunct) and whose own group plays around the country. And there I met Brian, whose group Mr. Shingles hosts another jam session that I went to all winter. And that's where I met McGinnity, the slide player who I jammed with again on Friday night. He's a real corker, but not from Cork--he's from the west coast, someplace like Donegal, and I'm still trying to get a handle on his pronunciation because in the clubs I can only decipher what he says in inverse degree to the volume level. If you want to hear what that sounds like watch the film "The Guard", the most popular Irish film of all time, because it takes place near there. It's a real pisser of a with Brendan Gleeson and Don Cheadle and aside from the put ons about drugs and the Irish mafia and the politically incorrect jokes, part of the fun is trying to figure out *** they are saying.



Anyway, for some reason there are a lot of musicians from Ireland living here....the 4 W's no doubt (warm weather, wine and women) as well as little rain...and a fair number play the blues and R&R. With the guys from around Dublin, like Brian, his bass player Dara and Devon (who I mentioned jamming with on Friday) I don't have a comprehension problem..... other than when they get with someone like McGinnity and their own speech becomes twice as thick and peppered with slang and colloquial expressions to match his. That's when I start drawing blanks and feel like a dunce ("Ten Cents a Dunce"). I can only imagine how lost the locals here are with his English, considering that they have a hard enough time with RP.

The basic truth IMO is that music is about playing with other people and having a good time doing it. For me that is the healthiest addiction I know and what motivates me to drag my aching *** out at 11:30 at night to places people "my age" (whatever the f*ck that means) are not supposed to be at that hour. Think about that for a second....when you're young they tell you that you're too young to be up that late, least of all in bars and nightclubs till all hours. Then when you get old they tell you you're too old to be doing that sort of thing. ¡Qué va!

So I ask you, where would you rather be at that hour: in a jam session or in the graveyard? Most older people would rather be at home in bed asleep, but that's really just a coffin with warm sheets and a pillow. As my old friend David Stein told his wife on a visit here when, after a long day of sightseeing she wanted to go back to the hotel to rest, "Honey, there's all the time in the world to rest when we're dead." That has been my motto ever since.

:bounce::cheers::clown::joker::salute::sunny::thumbrig::cool::glasses1::glasses7::headbang::mrgreen:
 
#32 ·
I won't quote posts 28 and 29 above, I didn't read all of it but get the point. Good for you I'm happy for you. Sounds like a lot of fun. I'm envious, wish I was retired and could afford to play around. best of Luck
 
#33 ·
Thank you but I feel like I'm doing the bare minimum about getting out there. Inertia is part of it and fighting against being complacent or lazy is something I need to fight because some times I just stay home instead. I tell myself that staying out until 2 to play is absurd when I need to get up at 7 a.m. the next morning, but having done it I really know I can. So I really don't play out as much as I would like to.

Anyway, I'm sure you'll get to do it if you set it up so that happens for you and if your life is organized so as to allow it. It's really just finding the time and the motivation.

BTW, I love your avatar photo. Quite funny. Is that you busking there and scaring the little kid away with your playing? I hope not, but if so, perhaps you need to shed a bit more before doing it in public. :bluewink:
 
#34 ·
This issue almost always stems from the guitar players or drummer. There's no reasoning with them, they have the chops on a box pedalboard and most jams have amps that are way too big for the room. The amount of times I've heard "oh yeah I need the volume to get the amp to break up". ..... Please, you are just being obnoxious. The other thing that really irks me, especially if there's horn players on stage is calling tunes that are guitar exclusive, like crossroads, etc.

how do I survive? Easy, I just walk off, it's a jam, if it's not goin how I like it, I just choose not to play with those people. You'd be surprised the amount of times I've put my horn away and the volume wizards have come off and gone "man where'd you go?" To which I answer "well it's no fun for me when I am at 90db and you are all at 110, I'd rather put plugs in and drink beer" more often than not this ends in a look of shock, and I add " I can't compete with that crap, if you guys don't want horn players then just keep on turning up"
 
#35 ·
This issue almost always stems from the guitar players or drummer. There's no reasoning with them, they have the chops on a box pedalboard and most jams have amps that are way too big for the room. The amount of times I've heard "oh yeah I need the volume to get the amp to break up". ..... Please, you are just being obnoxious. The other thing that really irks me, especially if there's horn players on stage is calling tunes that are guitar exclusive, like crossroads, etc.

how do I survive? Easy, I just walk off, it's a jam, if it's not goin how I like it, I just choose not to play with those people. You'd be surprised the amount of times I've put my horn away and the volume wizards have come off and gone "man where'd you go?" To which I answer "well it's no fun for me when I am at 90db and you are all at 110, I'd rather put plugs in and drink beer" more often than not this ends in a look of shock, and I add " I can't compete with that crap, if you guys don't want horn players then just keep on turning up"
Some guitar amps need to be loud to "breakup" but some don't so much (a Marshall master volume amp is one example) and there are attenuators and what's called amp slaving (where the amp's signal output is put into a master amp that controls overall volume, so the amp can be on 10 for breakup and the master amp can be on 2 setting the overall volume) and there is also going direct into a PA using a Line 6 guitar amp modeller or whatever.

I don't go to jams like these because anyone can show up and it might include egoed out dudes/dudettes or reasonable dudes/dudettes, but it's going to be some sort of mix of them.

Sometimes this happens in guitar bands where guitarist A might be egoed out and swamp guitarist B and those bands usually end up changing the members or the band breakups or whatever because of it.

I've also heard of egoed out Sax players that won't stop playing and actually play while the singers singing etc etc.

How my bands worked was that the drummer was the one we all synced to and everything is built around that level wise even if the drums were miced, and drums can be loud naturally, so a band just adapts to it.

We would just put the singer through a PA at rehearsals and the PA level and the rest of the band would sync to the unmiced drums.

Everything was miced playing live (guitars, drums) and once again all the levels were set to balance especially around the drums.

Believe it or not, a lot of guitarists can play in any key but some might want E or A or D or G for whatever reason and it depends on what songs the band is doing, are they guitar centric songs etc etc.

If I was playing blues tunes on guitar then I'd want them in E or A more than any other key but I can also adapt to Eb or Ab or whatever, but I would prefer them in E or A and I might even tune down a half step if it helped a wind player so that the tunes would be in Eb or Ab but I'd be physically playing as if the tunes were in E or A.

There are ways around all of these things, it just takes some organisation and some cooperation.
 
#45 ·
I never even think of the number of sharps.........I establish in my mind the key note for tenor, then it's just finger patterns.
Oddly, the songs you dislike, such as Crossroads & Johnny B Goode are perfect for harp.....a very useful double with tenor.
 
#47 ·
Do they make a harp with a mouthpiece and keys that go in order? It's hard enough to blow and suck those tiny little openings but the fact that the notes are not in any sequence is a bit strange. Now if they would make it shaped like a tenor mouthpiece so you could put the whole thing part way into your mouth and then press some keys to open and close those little reeds, that would be a thing I'd want to play. ;)

Nothing wrong with some of those songs other than that they get way overplayed at these sessions because that's what all the shredders learn. I have played with a couple of guitarists who played songs that you don't here as often and that was refreshing.
 
#53 ·
Sax players should know how to play in all keys and guitar players should as well and piano players etc etc.

All musicians should try to blend in.

I don't bother with jams because the above might not happen and the tunes are often boring and I have better things to do.

If someone goes to jams, then they need to expect weekend warriors with their latest gadgets and prima donna wannabes and old boring tunes and bad sound and all of that crap.

The only jams I've been in have been with my bands or with some members of another band for a bit of fun.

I like playing blues in D on the Alto and hitting the Ab b5th, and I like those fingerings, but that translates to F for a guitarist and as a guitarist I'd rather play in E than in F for blues but I can play blues in F (and all keys) on guitar and I can play blues in C# (and all keys) on Alto, but I do have preferences for certain keys on both instruments.
 
#54 ·
I don't bother with jams because the above might not happen and the tunes are often boring and I have better things to do.
I agree.
However, many cannot join bands because of their family commitments....or their skill level.
In these cases, an organised jam session is their only opportunity to play with others.

That said, wouldn't it be nice if someone could invent a non-electronic transposing sax where pressing a key or pushing and pulling a slide like on a trumpet changed the key you were in. Kind of a slideophone or something that is not an EWI. :geek::joker:
The saxo-capo. :)
Snag is that some would inevitably say that it affects the tone. :evil:
 
#57 ·
Well yes, that was more a silly joke than anything else and the feel of the different keys is different and makes you play different patterns, lines, riffs and licks and runs simply because of the fingering pattern being different. So you're right that it could be a crutch that would cause many people to play the same thing all the time but just in a different key.

Reminds me of the trumpet player I played with who didn't know we have an octave key. His jaw about hit his chest when I told him that that exists on a sax. Man, was he annoyed realizing that while he is there busting his chops to play overtones as the only way to get up high, I was just able to press a key. Of course I showed him that I didn't need to use it if I didn't want to, but that was no consolation. LOL
 
#60 ·
Reminds me of the trumpet player I played with who didn't know we have an octave key. His jaw about hit his chest when I told him that that exists on a sax. Man, was he annoyed realizing that while he is there busting his chops to play overtones as the only way to get up high, I was just able to press a key. Of course I showed him that I didn't need to use it if I didn't want to, but that was no consolation. LOL
Along these same lines, we sax players still have to 'voice' notes in the altissimo range and blow our brains out to cut through the mix in these loud situations. While the guitar player simply presses a string higher up on the neck for a screaming high note, and pushes a pedal or turns a knob for more volume.

Regarding the 'AC/DC' shredder-distorted type of guitar playing, I still remember years and years ago when I was in high school during the early days of guitar shredding (back then it was 'psychedelic distortion'), one night at the Fillmore I heard Albert King playing the blues at about half the volume, and with FAR more taste, subtlety, and soul than the 'shredders' and my immediate thought was: so that's what a guitar is supposed to sound like! I haven't changed my mind during the 40+ years since.
 
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