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Holton bass on Ebay

8K views 30 replies 11 participants last post by  turf3 
#1 ·
#2 ·
I was also tempted, but don't have the cash sitting around for it.
Plus not much call for a bass sax in a college Jazz or Concert band (though I guess there could be).
But I thought the description was pretty clear as to what it is.
Can you be more specific in what info you are looking for?
It's obviously a bass sax, most likely made by Holton, barest of brass (I'm not too keen on the seamed look), new pads (all) and regulated by the seller.

What am I missing??
 
#3 ·
I was looking for another pair of eyes more experienced than mine, or confirmation that the seller is legit, or whether or not this horn would be a good player or just a collection piece. What design elements are there to say that it's a Holton? It's awful hard to pull the trigger on a questionable instrument 2000 miles away. Know what I mean?
 
#4 ·
The seller, quinntheeskimo, is a member here.
If you do a search you will see a few seemed to have issues with purchases, but others have had nothing but good experiences with him.
So, yes, the seller is legit.
Good player or collection piece.......that you would have to decide. Do you play in a band that needs a bass sax?
I know we have a sopranino that is a bit of a 'wall piece'.
 
#5 ·
My guess is that it will be marginally satisfactory as a player. I know he says "plays GREAT now and is a terrific player", but I don't think you can count on him for that. I've met him, like 15 years ago, he's a nice guy and back then I think he was highly regarded as a pretty square ebay seller, but in recent years it appears to me he's gone more "professional", and you have to watch out for yourself.

Even though the original first saxophone was a bass, bass saxophones have been kind of the awkward mutant member of the saxophone family with relatively little attention to perfecting the acoustics and ergonomics. A prototype that never made it into production, from a manufacturer that isn't known for excellent saxophones of any size? Attention, collectors.
 
#7 ·
I'm not sure why you'd conclude that you can't count on me to have accurate descriptions, and I don't understand why you'd think that a buyer would have to 'watch out for his self'. I have indeed gone more professional, but in the best possible way. I am always trying to improve my customer service and I have an unconditional 14 day return policy on everything I sell. If you buy this bass and don't like the way it plays, or just don't like the color, return it for a full refund. I don't charge restocking fees like some people and I am completely focused on customer satisfaction.

This bass is just as I described-almost certainly made in the Holton shop by Holton as a prototype, never put into production, probably never had pads in it. I had one of my tech do a full repad on it and it was checked over by my master tech, and it is completely ready to go. It's a vintage bass, so it will have some quirks, no doubt, but if they're too much for you, you're always welcome to return it. I would really rather not read any more baseless assaults on my trustworthiness here. If you're a customer and have a problem with a transaction you've had with me, I'll be glad to work it out, but if you haven't done business with me, I honestly don't think you can judge.

Matt
 
#8 ·
I wouldn't doubt a single thing in what you've just said. I still think it would be naive for a potential buyer to bet thousands on your assertion that this saxophone plays great. It would be unfair to call you "untrustworthy" just for that, and as you note, perhaps the return policy makes it irrelevant.
 
#11 ·
Looks like someone did finally chip in a bid on this horn. I wish I were close enough to have played it, because if it's good that's a crazy low price for any bass, especially one with some (alleged) collector value. Hope it has a happy new owner.
 
#12 ·
Hi Instrument Attic. I am the happy new owner the Holton bass. I took a gamble, bought it at 3 am GMT and got it shipped to the UK. I totally agree about the price, I thought I would never find one as cheap as that again.

Looking at it closely it has been hand made by craftsmen, with files, and I love the fact it is unique. I also love the finish and patina, it looks like it has been brought up from the Titanic.

It has a few foibles as you would expect from an 88 year old instrument. The middle c is a bit stuffy even at maximum vent and it may need some remedial work on a wonky g tone hole at some point, but as its soldered on its not too difficult. It arrived with a crushed neck tenon receiver, but that was easily sorted by a local repairer and his mandrels.

I have made a bis Bb key (can't manage without one) and re-regulated and re seated the pads after its trip across the atlantic to my fussy standards, and it blows pretty well. The nearest reference point I have is to liken it to my old 1936 12m baritone on supplements. For any further playing quibbles I tend to blame my playing and need practise harder as its my first bass. I started reading this thread as I am looking for any more information on the instrument I am now fortunate enough to own. Any Holton company history gurus out there?
 
#20 ·
Hi Brenton
My prototype is hand engraved "model approved Jan 36" so it would make sense if the silver one is 1937 as the seller dates it. The keywork is different in the pinky cluster, mine has a conn/martin type bar g lever, this one has a button. The distincitve slanting key arm at the bottom and the same detail on the g# are carried over form my prototype though...................................
 
#21 ·
Aah, aerophone, it looks like yours IS the prototype after all (for some unchecked reason I thought yours had both LH bell Keys), but that is "model approved Jan 30 '26" (1926, not 1936), which is appropriate for the silver one being s/n 28803 being made in 1927. But hey, it still begs the question: how many other genuine Holton Bass Saxes are out there (and are there any Rudy's; there are some Baris)?...
PS. Instrument Attic, I am curious as to why you wondered whether your Soprano was a 'Rudy' one. My contention is, if it doesn't SAY 'Rudy' on it, then it isn't. (Serial Numbers vs model name around that time were inconsistent between the different sizes). If on the other hand it has ALL the features of a 'Rudy' (including 2x breather tone holes for low C) but DOESN'T say 'Rudy' on it, then you could say it is a 'Rudy Wiedoeft'-STYLE model. Cheers...
 
#22 ·
Aerophone, I am envious of the table keys on your prototype. Mine has the button G# and lacks the wraparound Bb. Earlier you spoke of stuffy c. The side C on mine is pretty good and with the addition of the bis key try depressing just your right hand F key. I think you will find the use of the F key alone will give you a better speaking C. Breton asked earlier about other Holton made basses, mine is very much like the one in Canada and is keyed to F serial# 28846. On the Holton section of the forum Ginger sax states that Jay Easton has another one of this type and provides pictures of it.
 
#23 · (Edited)
This is really interesting stuff, so there are more non-stencil holton basses out there in the wild.
Thanks for all the advice on alternate fingerings. My emboucher and throat are tuning in by the day and the horn is starting to speak better and clearer notes are coming out. Practising separating out overtones scares the cat but improves the sound.
 
#27 ·
This is really interesting stuff, so there are more non-stencil holton basses out there in the wild.
That Montreal one is a scam. I contacted the seller about it and got the canned response about how he's recently moved, would use a shipper, asked for Western Union payment, etc. He probably just lifted the pictures from another site. Too bad, as it would be great to get more real info on it :(
 
#24 ·
Question about the silver Holton bass on the Montreal ad. Someone said that it goes to High F. Which keys are which in the left hand? I see only two palm keys (D and Eb), and high E for the right hand. Then there's four pearls and a 5th non-pearl touchpiece.
 
#25 ·
That "5th non-pearl touchpiece" just above the top pearl is often called the "quick-F" or "front-F" ie. it is only found on Saxes that are keyed to high-F (but not all Saxes that are keyed to high-F have it). Unusual to see it as the ONLY high-F Key for LH. Cheers...
 
#30 ·
The guy who posts in Montreal posted a Holton Conn stencil (different horn from the one referenced above) a couple of months ago, and when I responded he gave me the same scam feedback. He stated price was $2400, also listed $2400 for a Mark VI tenor - that is certainly a red flag. But - the picture was definitely a silver plated Conn (stencil) bass sax. The picture referenced in this thread is definitely that of a Holton (not Conn stencil) bass sax. I played one just like this in college. I am pretty sure it was keyed to High F in the palm keys - you wouldn't be able to see the third LH palm key from the angle of referenced photo, and the top of the horn is cut off in the photo. I remember the odd trill key for the RH, that runs parallel to the three RH side keys. The photo appears to show a front high F key, as was also present in my Holton soprano from about the same time frame. It's not clear whether the bass in the picture has a bis Bb key. It has the Conn style fork Eb where a full size tone hole is part of the lower stack.

It's certainly possible that Holton had Conn make some bass saxes to their specifications, with the special keywork, to high F, using the Conn tube and its (superior) fork Eb tone hole, but using the Holton straight sided pivot screws (which I remember because I had a couple of Conns with the little set screws, and a Holton soprano with the straight sided pivot screws, and I positively remember that the Holton bass had the Holton set screws. Then Holton could have had Conn also (either earlier, or later) make some "stencil" saxes that were just the standard Conn bass but engraved Holton. That would probably be cheaper. I guess that at this late date there is no way to know whether Holton ever actually made any bass saxophones in their own factory. I am not even sure whether Holton ever made any saxophones in their own factory. Even something like the Wiedoeft horns could have been ordered from someone like Conn, Buescher, or Martin, I bet.

About 20 years after I graduated, I went back to the college and asked the new band director and the equipment manager if they still had the bass sax. They said "bass sax? no, we've never had a bass sax" so I guess it's long gone, to where no one will ever find out, I guess.
 
#31 ·
The "Holton prototype" photos look very Conn-like, see the bell brace for example. I would wonder whether this was made by Conn, to Holton's specifications. Note the form Eb tone hole in the lower stack, just where Conns have it, but no one else does. Although, the arm for the fork Eb pad is curved rather than straight like the Conn basses have. I think the keywork has a very "Conn" look to it, though I can't swear to that. See my comments on the "Conn-iness" of another Holton bass.

I suspect there may have been two levels of Holton bass sax: one group that were Conn basses, no changes to speak of at all except the engraving, and another group that were made by Conn for Holton, to Holton's specifications, meaning lightly modified keywork and range to high E or F. Is there a tone hole for high F, just no palm key, or is there no tone hole at all and the front key lifts the high E pad?
 
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