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Dark, bright, warm, open.... What's the difference between these?

4K views 19 replies 13 participants last post by  musicobsessed 
#1 ·
One of the main focuses that my private instructor has me working on is my tone. I have the finger coordination and speed to play fast and difficult pieces, but it means nothing if my tone is "closed and thin". Long tones, long tones, long tones are my best friend (or should be, haha), but it's hard to know exactly what I'm looking for because the terminology confuses me. For example, I was told not to play bright and use warm air. What exactly does bright mean in the tone world? And what about dark tone? Can you not be bright and warm? Does warm necessarily go with dark? Are these things differences in air speed, support, embouchure, or all of the above? These are all questions I could ask my teacher, but I figured I'd give this a shot first. Thanks for any input!
 
#2 ·
Ask the instructor. That's his (or her) job. If instructor won't answer, or gives a vague answer without demonstrating on his own horn the difference between what your sound is and his example, ask the forum again and get another teacher. Practicing long tones without knowing how to use the techniques you listed is simply getting good at producing the tone your instructor says is bad. Teaching you how to use them is what you are paying for.
 
#3 ·
The individual Sax / Mouthpiece / Reed / Ligature combinations can also make some difference to your sound eg.
Can you guess whether this one tends toward bright, or warm:- ? (Answer = Bright)
And this one (same player, different gear):- ? (Answer = Warm)
How about recording yourself and listening back to decide if you like what you hear? Try not to get too bogged down with terminology...
 
#4 ·
Everybody has a differing opinion on what these terms mean.
What is the whole warm air thing anyway?
Warm is another one that really has many meanings to many people.
Dark and bright have confused people enough, then add warm, thin, closed, open, fat, focused, spread.
Just make it sound good, be it dark, bright, warm etc etc etc.
Sound the notes properly with enough air support and let the rest look after itself.
 
#6 ·
There appears to be a misconception concerning a bright tone.....almost as if it were to be avoided at all costs.
This, of course, is not so...unless you consider players such as David Sambourne & Clarence Clemmons to have a poor tone.
The important point is to culture a GOOD tone.....whether it be considered dark, bright, warm, phat or whatever label others choose to append.
Your tone should be appropriate to the style of music being played....in my opinion.
 
#7 ·
#10 ·
What really matters the most is if you have a beautiful sound. I know that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but realistically, it's if you have a sound that you enjoy listening to. You're your harshest critic, and by extension, if you're satisfied with your sound, others will be, as well.

Since we've all got our own sounds, it really doesn't matter whether or not your sound is dark, bright, warm or cold. For classical, the most important factors are warmth and focus. Purity and darkness come second, and are all entirely subjective. I tend to play with a brighter sound than most classical saxophonists, but it suits my personal style and sound when I play classical. It's really up to you.

For the next couple of months, while you're in the practice room, go into the corner and spend fifteen minutes on long tones, overtones, and a combination of the two (Play one foot away from the wall, towards it). As your control of each develops, you will gain control of your sound, and then you can easily achieve whichever beautiful sound you have in your head.

Good luck!

Craig
 
#13 ·
apparently no one else really has a set idea either.
I wouldn't say that! It's just that these are terms for something that is hard to describe and what is being described is subjective and relative ('compared to what').

When you were told "not to play bright", I would interpret that as not to play TOO bright. Bright implies a certain amount of edge to the sound, imparted by a lot of upper partials in the tone. That can range from a nice 'ring' to an unpleasant shrill sound. It's all too easy to get on the shrill side, especially with a high baffle mpc if you don't know how to 'tame' it down somewhat, and to many listeners that can be unpleasant. On the other end of the spectrum, dark, warm, full, can range from a beautiful rich sound to a dead, tubby sound. Obviously you don't want the latter.

A good player can range from dark to bright in tone, without going to the unpleasant extreme at either end of that spectrum. Listen to Coltrane, Dexter Gordon, etc, and you'll get the idea.
 
#18 ·
This is kind of interesting, so I'll chime in. For the original questioner we need to consider the real issue of confusion vs clarity. For an experienced musician the bright/dark difference is primarily a question of which overtones are emphasized in what is referred to as the "tone color". Dark/Bright is not a value but a "quality" in the synonym of "characteristic". The tone that comes from the saxophone originates in the artistic imagination-not the mouthpiece. Less experienced players will change their equipment in a quest for a "better" sound-more experienced players change for a piece of equipment that allows the to be 1) more flexible or 2) more consistently and easily produce what they imagine. Mr peebee's earlier detailed description of different tonal characteristics seems pretty complete if you're looking for term definitions.
The "warm air" thing is a vague description of "how to" blow into the thing. It's not hugely helpful to me personally. For any sort of tone you need to elevate your tongue as is sounding heee and tu (in French) with the voice at the same time, but this too is an approximation. In my experience this is rather more "tricky" than difficult.
 
#19 ·
Warm air is when you blow with your mouth open on your hand. Do that and it feels warm. Narrow your lips to get a small opening and blow and the air will feel cold on your hand. When you blow the sax they say you want the warm air It's a matter of opening your throat rather than trying to blow like you would to whistle.
 
#20 ·
Thanks for the explanation. I have a decent understanding of how to use warm air, I was just wondering how warm air correlated with bright tone, if at all. The way my instructor phrased it, they could be viewed as opposites, which leads me to think warm is also dark, but I'm not sure. In general, I guess I'm not looking for actual definitions, but more of any connections between these phrases (or people's opinions of the connections). My fault for wording it that way, but the input has been interesting so far.
 
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