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Couturier (?) American Professional alto on ebay

2K views 7 replies 4 participants last post by  More Sax Please 
#1 ·
The seller says Couturier but based on Felix's criteria I wonder.

ebay Item # 161411099245

The s/n is in the range Felix outlines for Couturier, the "Mercedes" guard looks like the Couturier guard, RH C pinky looks Holtonesque (at least to my untrained eye), and I think the toneholes have the concave bevel like a Martin.

I've no interest in the horn itself, but I am curious about these elements of its construction and if there is/are a(ny) definitive tell-tale indication(s) of the maker? Or maybe I'm seeing things...?:dontknow:
 
#3 ·
Martin was not the only maker using that tone hole style. There were Olds Ambassadors that Martin made, Olds Supers that Olds made and all of the Courturier horns. This one is a Courturier for sure and would be a "mid-life" one probably from the 1922-27 period judging from the concave G# (later ones above 200,000) had it L shaped working the low C# too. Semi-mercedes low C guard, soldered beveled Tone Holes, etc. The intonation on these is a bit iffy and not as good as the 1928-31 models.
 
#5 ·
Martin did the Olds Supers too. In fact they were the only company capable of doing the thick, soldered-in tone rings. You'll notice Couturier was based in Indiana near Elkhart. My guess is they may have had a small facility but definitely not a saxophone manufacturing capability.
 
#6 ·
Let the debate begin. Based on my research and mind-change, I believe that all three companies (Olds, Martin and Couturier) made their own Saxes at some stage. Copying ideas from each other, and maybe even sharing or swapping tooling at various times, but manufacturing nonetheless. The Tone Holes between the three companies, though similar, were definitely not from the same workshop, even allowing for the fact that Martin did change the shape of their bevelled Tone Holes over time. The Couturier ones are uniquely straight-bevelled, rather than Martin's concave-bevelled versions. The Olds 'Super' ones seem to be stepped rather than bevelled (never seen on any other Saxes ?). Prove me wrong...
 
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