Buescher Top Hat & Cane b12? - Page 3

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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Buescher Top Hat & Cane b12?

    She’s a beaut!

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    Default Re: Buescher Top Hat & Cane b12?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZootTheSim View Post
    Still looking for the right mp/reed combo. My TK Acoustimer and Robusto both feel good with Rigotti Golds or Lupifaros, but I feel my setup could be better still.
    What do you have in mind ?

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    Default Re: Buescher Top Hat & Cane b12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tryptykon View Post
    What do you have in mind ?
    Not sure; probably a lot of trial and error. Either that, or ask Sebastian Knox to help me dial it in. I try for a velvety tone with a bit of edge, but not overly bright, and was actually pleasantly surprised that this later 400 sounds as focused as it does. I've read that they became less focused over time, but the '49 TH&C I played was much more spread.

    Really I need two good pieces: one for ballads, and one for rock/ska. Other TH&C owners seem to use Links, Ponzols, Bergs, TW Durgas, Lambersons, etc. These horns are apparently not too picky, as long as it's not a small-chamber, high-baffle piece.
    A little bit louder and a little bit worse.

  5. #44
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    Default Re: Buescher Top Hat & Cane b12?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZootTheSim View Post
    ask Sebastian Knox to help me dial it in.
    Ding, ding, ding...correct answer!

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    Default Re: Buescher Top Hat & Cane b12?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZootTheSim View Post
    Not sure; probably a lot of trial and error. Either that, or ask Sebastian Knox to help me dial it in. I try for a velvety tone with a bit of edge, but not overly bright, and was actually pleasantly surprised that this later 400 sounds as focused as it does. I've read that they became less focused over time, but the '49 TH&C I played was much more spread.

    Really I need two good pieces: one for ballads, and one for rock/ska. Other TH&C owners seem to use Links, Ponzols, Bergs, TW Durgas, Lambersons, etc. These horns are apparently not too picky, as long as it's not a small-chamber, high-baffle piece.
    My first good tenor was a '49 TH&C . My dad played that horn throughout my childhood and he gave it to me
    when I was 20 yrs old, IIRC as encouragement when I started playing more seriously . Wasn't expecting that
    at all cos' he really loved that tenor. Anyway I don't have it anymore(wish I did..).

    One thing I'm wondering since you mention this B-12 being more focused is how similar it is dimensionally, or
    acoustically if you prefer that term, to the Aristocrat 157 model that was made for like a year or two in the
    mid 50's.

    That was allegedly an Aristo' neck and body with a 400 styled bell and bow section. I tried to get my hands on
    one of those late last year but someone else beat me to it.

  7. #46
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    Default Re: Buescher Top Hat & Cane b12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tryptykon View Post
    One thing I'm wondering since you mention this B-12 being more focused is how similar it is dimensionally, or acoustically if you prefer that term, to the Aristocrat 157 model that was made for like a year or two in the mid 50's.
    Dave Wilson has a 157 for sale (scroll down the page):

    http://www.davewilsonmusic.org/dwmi_inventory.html

    Although the ad doesn't say so, he assured me it's been repadded and adjusted. Grab it and we can compare dimensions of our, er, horns.

    There was a thread a couple years ago with Buescher 156 dimensions. If I can figure out the method of measurement maddenma used, I can try to post figures for my B12.
    A little bit louder and a little bit worse.

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    Default Re: Buescher Top Hat & Cane b12?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZootTheSim View Post
    Dave Wilson has a 157 for sale (scroll down the page):

    http://www.davewilsonmusic.org/dwmi_inventory.html

    Although the ad doesn't say so, he assured me it's been repadded and adjusted. Grab it and we can compare dimensions of our, er, horns.

    There was a thread a couple years ago with Buescher 156 dimensions. If I can figure out the method of measurement maddenma used, I can try to post figures for my B12.
    Tempting but I can't swing it at the moment, but I'll keep my eye on it .

    I actually have another Pan American tenor en route to me nd have been messing around with some of those semi-quirky
    ' The Buescher ' true tone tenors -- kind of up to my neck in tenors again after years of moderation .

    You could also buy it as a backup to your B12 and measure them both while you're at it .

    I'd like to get my old TH&C back, but who knows where it is at this point...

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    Default Re: Buescher Top Hat & Cane b12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tryptykon View Post
    You could also buy it as a backup to your B12 and measure them both while you're at it .
    You're really not helping my GAS, y'know. Not one bit.
    A little bit louder and a little bit worse.

  10. #49
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    Default Re: Buescher Top Hat & Cane b12?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZootTheSim View Post
    You're really not helping my GAS, y'know. Not one bit.
    It's actually not a bad idea . Buy the 157 and sell the Armstrong .

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    Default Re: Buescher Top Hat & Cane b12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tryptykon View Post
    It's actually not a bad idea . Buy the 157 and sell the Armstrong .
    In fact it's a great idea--but not feasible right now. Maybe someday I'll be able to justify owning two Buescher tenors. It was sure tough choosing between the B12 and the 157.

    Besides, I just played my Armstrong through a 3-hr rehearsal, and still really dig it (despite the broken F# key). It has a raw Teutonic voice you might expect from a Couf descendant, but is more focused still than my B12. And a backup horn that sings a little differently just might come in handy.
    A little bit louder and a little bit worse.

  12. #51
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    Default Re: Buescher Top Hat & Cane b12?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZootTheSim View Post
    In fact it's a great idea--but not feasible right now. Maybe someday I'll be able to justify owning two Buescher tenors. It was sure tough choosing between the B12 and the 157.

    Besides, I just played my Armstrong through a 3-hr rehearsal, and still really dig it (despite the broken F# key). It has a raw Teutonic voice you might expect from a Couf descendant, but is more focused still than my B12. And a backup horn that sings a little differently just might come in handy.
    I can't argue with that, at all .

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    Default Re: Buescher Top Hat & Cane b12?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZootTheSim View Post
    Not sure; probably a lot of trial and error. Either that, or ask Sebastian Knox to help me dial it in. I try for a velvety tone with a bit of edge, but not overly bright, and was actually pleasantly surprised that this later 400 sounds as focused as it does. I've read that they became less focused over time, but the '49 TH&C I played was much more spread.

    Really I need two good pieces: one for ballads, and one for rock/ska. Other TH&C owners seem to use Links, Ponzols, Bergs, TW Durgas, Lambersons, etc. These horns are apparently not too picky, as long as it's not a small-chamber, high-baffle piece.
    When I had my '49 TH&C I used either a rubber Link 7 or a metal Berg 130/0 .. those were the 'pieces I owned at that time.
    I also had some vintage Tonemasters and STMs that were on the smaller side 4* and 5 IIRC.

    Funny, I really didn't know if those had much value except recognizing them from album covers. They were always in the
    case when my dad played the horn when I was growing up. He used the stock white Buescher True Tone mpc that came
    with it as stock equipment.

    The man he bought the tenor from included the Links in the sale since he had stopped playing in the 1970s, but had been
    a local professional in the 40s.
    In fact I have a photo of him playing that same horn and my mom's father who was a jazz drummer
    is in the same picture,, it's a group shot. I'd really like to get that tenor back but it's not likely .

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    Default Re: Buescher Top Hat & Cane b12?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tryptykon View Post
    In fact I have a photo of him playing that same horn and my mom's father who was a jazz drummer is in the same picture,, it's a group shot. I'd really like to get that tenor back but it's not likely .
    I'd love to see that jazzy family photo! When did you sell your TH&C anyway? It's possibly still kicking around, maybe closer than you think. If you know the SN, you could always ask around here and Saxophone Cafe.
    A little bit louder and a little bit worse.

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    Default Re: Buescher Top Hat & Cane b12?

    Think I'll get my TH&C repadded. Any tips are welcome.
    A little bit louder and a little bit worse.

  16. #55
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    Default Re: Buescher Top Hat & Cane b12?

    Make sure to tell the tech to keep the buds and snap-in resos before he does the repad.

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    Default Re: Buescher Top Hat & Cane b12?

    Keeping the snaps fo shiz. Is MusicMedic still the go-to for replacements? I gather you can re-bore Roo pads or other brands to fit Buescher buds, but am not sure what's preferred with this horn.
    A little bit louder and a little bit worse.

  18. #57
    Indistinguishable Resident Buescher Bigot and Forum Contributor 2010-2017 maddenma's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buescher Top Hat & Cane b12?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZootTheSim View Post
    If so, the B12 might well be the missing link between the B11 and Super 400.
    My presumption is that it is identical to the S400.
    1924 Buescher Model 123 True Tone Silver Plated Sopranino
    1926 Buescher Model 120 True Tone Series III Silver Plated Straight Alto

    1936 Buescher Model 139 Custom Built Bare Brass Baritone
    1938 Buescher Model 127 Aristocrat (Art Deco) Tenor

    1938 Buescher Model 139 Aristocrat Gold Plated Baritone (some day)
    1947 Buescher Model B-11 400 (Top Hat & Cane) Bare Brass Tenor
    1949 Buescher Model B-7 400 (Top Hat & Cane) Silver Plated Alto
    1949 Buescher Model 140 Aristocrat (Big B) Alto
    1949 Buescher Model 156 Aristocrat (Big B) Gold Plated Tenor
    1970-something Yamaha Model YBS-61 Baritone
    2015 Vibrato A1S III Plastic Alto

    Morgan, Ishimori, Strathon, and Theo Wanne Mouthpieces.





    Nothing works so well in gathering information as a display of ignorance. I learn something new every day.


  19. #58
    Indistinguishable Resident Buescher Bigot and Forum Contributor 2010-2017 maddenma's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buescher Top Hat & Cane b12?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZootTheSim View Post
    Keeping the snaps fo shiz. Is MusicMedic still the go-to for replacements? I gather you can re-bore Roo pads or other brands to fit Buescher buds, but am not sure what's preferred with this horn.
    Any pad can be modified to work. It's just a matter of punching a hole in it. I have Roos on a couple of of my gold plated horns, Pisoni's on the others. I suggest using whatever the tech recommends as they are likely to be more comfortable using what they're used to and will allegedly do a better job on the installation. Either way, get some good pads and don't worry about using Buescher Snap-On replacements. They pretty much all suck.
    1924 Buescher Model 123 True Tone Silver Plated Sopranino
    1926 Buescher Model 120 True Tone Series III Silver Plated Straight Alto

    1936 Buescher Model 139 Custom Built Bare Brass Baritone
    1938 Buescher Model 127 Aristocrat (Art Deco) Tenor

    1938 Buescher Model 139 Aristocrat Gold Plated Baritone (some day)
    1947 Buescher Model B-11 400 (Top Hat & Cane) Bare Brass Tenor
    1949 Buescher Model B-7 400 (Top Hat & Cane) Silver Plated Alto
    1949 Buescher Model 140 Aristocrat (Big B) Alto
    1949 Buescher Model 156 Aristocrat (Big B) Gold Plated Tenor
    1970-something Yamaha Model YBS-61 Baritone
    2015 Vibrato A1S III Plastic Alto

    Morgan, Ishimori, Strathon, and Theo Wanne Mouthpieces.





    Nothing works so well in gathering information as a display of ignorance. I learn something new every day.


  20. #59
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    Default Re: Buescher Top Hat & Cane b12?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZootTheSim View Post
    I'd love to see that jazzy family photo! When did you sell your TH&C anyway? It's possibly still kicking around, maybe closer than you think. If you know the SN, you could always ask around here and Saxophone Cafe.
    Actually, I did have the serial number written down in a notebook but lost the book during one of my moves unfortunately.
    Sold the horn in 1995 so... it was awhile, ago.

  21. #60
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    Default Re: Buescher Top Hat & Cane b12?

    Quote Originally Posted by maddenma View Post
    Any pad can be modified to work. It's just a matter of punching a hole in it. I have Roos on a couple of of my gold plated horns, Pisoni's on the others. I suggest using whatever the tech recommends as they are likely to be more comfortable using what they're used to and will allegedly do a better job on the installation. Either way, get some good pads and don't worry about using Buescher Snap-On replacements. They pretty much all suck.
    Good advice, thanks. The strike at my workplace just ended, so the repad will need to wait a bit. But I'll meanwhile chat with my new tech and see what he recommends. Not sure of the difference between Roos and Pisonis (or Roos of different colours), but hopefully he'll have a preference.
    A little bit louder and a little bit worse.

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