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Classical vs Jazz

17K views 75 replies 25 participants last post by  gary 
#1 ·
Just to clarify to anyone who isn't sure or is confused on this issue, there is a very big difference between classical and jazz style of playing. There is not "this style is more classical" or "I tend to sound more classical on this mouthpiece", it is either one or the other.

To be clear, the goals of producing sound between classical and jazz styles are very different:

Jazz - The player is going for a personal sound that is indicative of that individual's personality/playing style/geographic location/whatever. As we all know the jazz sound spectrum is probably one of, if not the biggest compared to any other acoustic instrument. The embouchure is chin pushed up and lip pushed out, no teeth, and the sound production is low to center in the range of where the note sits in terms of pitch (allows for more flexibility).

Classical - The player is going for "the sound" which can very player to player, but they are generally aiming at the same target, so to speak. The embouchure is chin down and lip tucked under, teeth act as a focal point on the reed with the lip acting as a buffer, and the sound production is high in the range of where the note sits in terms of pitch. Flexibility is still there (for vibrato), but other than that the embouchure is very set.

A developed sound in either style is independent (for the most part) and thus requires independent cultivation. A jazz mouthpiece can be played with a classical embouchure and a classical mouthpiece can be played with a jazz embouchure, but it's the embouchure that determines the style, not the mouthpiece.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this, more specifically attempting to practice and cultivate both types of playing styles at the same time? Of course any input or disagreements of the above are welcome as well.
 
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#70 ·
I think the OP might be influenced by the illustrations of Teal's ideal embouchure in "The Art of Saxophone Playing". Teal demonstrates by photos two things that he considers incorrect -- the bunched chin and the rolled out lower lip. With that in mind, you could come to the conclusion that Dexter Gordon has the wrong embouchure for "legit" playing.

I studied with several students of Larry Teal, including Donald Sinta, and they all had different embouchures. One in fact played with a bunched chin and a fat lower lip. Teal obviously did not change his embouchure.

I have since studied with a couple of Allard disciples most notably Harry Miedema and I currently play with a bunched chin and fat lower lip. I can play a better classical tone than ever. It's clearly not the embouchure that determines the tone!

I will say that I have far less fatigue and discomfort with the fat lip/bunch chin embouchure. And I think I can better color the notes and effect timbre to suit. But to each his own.
 
#74 ·
Just found this thread and must admit I haven't read all the posts yet but does the classical/jazz debate mean I have to be careful who I choose as a teacher. I am thinking of having lessons with a classically trained sax player to get the basics right (embouchure/breathing). I have about a years worth of experience but that was ten years ago. Do I have to seek out a tutor who will teach me the type of genre I wish to play (jazz/blues)?
 
#75 ·
There's a difference between learning the play the saxophone and learning to play a particular style of music, such as jazz or blues. I think you are in stage 1 now, so all you need is a good teacher who can help you get command of the horn. After that, if you want to play jazz then yes, it would make sense to learn improvisation from a jazz-oriented teacher.
 
#76 ·
I would add that these days most of the sax players I've worked with have all had a "classical" background, to include university-level classical studies.
My first sax player, however, was 100% bebop0 at the time, studied with Joe Viola at Berklee and I would say that the difference between that and classical training would be an acceptance of a greater range of tone on the horn and perhaps also of just how tight or other the embouchure should be. In any case, unless you really just want to concentrate on jazz at the expense of everything else, it's not going to hurt you whichever orientation you sax player has. I/ll repeat, though. Today most players do both.
 
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