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Benjamin Allen Tenor Mouthpiece is As Good AS IT Gets

52K views 211 replies 38 participants last post by  jazzznbluezzz 
#1 ·
Just wanted to leave a rave for my Benjamin Allen Hard Rubber Tenor piece. I bought the Tony Dargotti Model about two months ago and have had a great email and phone relationship with Ben since that time. The cost was just over 200 dollars and the mouthpiece is one of the best HR mouthpieces I have ever played. The work is flawless and the piece has a deep quality that I have only found from great vintage pieces. It is a traditional Link looking piece but it plays clearer and cleaner than any link HR piece I have. And it is really full sounding and can take a ton of air. I would say that it is they type piece that many professional players are looking for. Ben refaced some pieces for me and did a great job on them, but his own piece is a work of art. I have turned a few friends on to his work and they all seem to be very impressed with everything about the experience of the piece and Ben's work and communication. I think he is really on to something. He is an articulate and honest dude who seems to be mostly motivated by creating something unusually good and beautiful. I have mixed feelings about outing his great work since it might make for a wait for the next piece I order from him, but I also feel the need to sing his praises. Check out his web site. His piece is not a "chops in the box" wedge piece, but he is an artist on a high level creating the kind of work that will be in demand for a long time.
 
#158 ·
This was not exactly ideal acoustics, and a very amateur recording...hopefully you can hear Nathan on his Ben Allen piece...

 
#163 ·
Here's the clip with Phil's Mosaic...just the solo section and the soli...Anthony Hanna on tenor...

 
#166 ·
There are so many really talented hs kids....been lucky to be able to work with some of them....and they're really lucky to have so many really talented mouthpiece makers....these three kids are off to college, should be fun meeting the next group....
 
#167 ·
I'll admit that I've been off the Dagradi piece for a while. I was loving it in rehearsals, but the band has been getting so loud that when I have a solo-intensive set ahead of me, I've been pulling out the ol' go-to Lamberson J 115.

My biggest challenge was my reed selection - I needed harder reeds, and I knew it. Woodwind/Brasswind showed "in-stock, ready to ship" when I placed my order, and as soon as I hit "Submit", I got a back order notice. Well, the reeds finally got here, and I prepared them last night, and sorted through several at lunch time today. I have a winner! Yeah, baby, happiness is a good reed.

I'm looking forward to blowing the Dagradi 20TD (.102) with the big band tonight. We've been swamped with calls since a fan letter hit the newspaper after our last gig - should be a more-than-packed house tonight! We don't use solo mics, so I'm counting on the 20TD for its focus, response, and complex tone at full steam.

It's really not so much of a leap of faith. I know what the piece can bring to the table, and I am looking forward to exercising everything it brings for me.

20/20 - King Super 20/Ben Allen 20TD (Rigotti Jazz/FL Ultimate)
 
#168 ·
I'll admit that I've been off the Dagradi piece for a while. I was loving it in rehearsals, but the band has been getting so loud that when I have a solo-intensive set ahead of me, I've been pulling out the ol' go-to Lamberson J 115.

My biggest challenge was my reed selection - I needed harder reeds, and I knew it. Woodwind/Brasswind showed "in-stock, ready to ship" when I placed my order, and as soon as I hit "Submit", I got a back order notice. Well, the reeds finally got here, and I prepared them last night, and sorted through several at lunch time today. I have a winner! Yeah, baby, happiness is a good reed.

I'm looking forward to blowing the Dagradi 20TD (.102) with the big band tonight. We've been swamped with calls since a fan letter hit the newspaper after our last gig - should be a more-than-packed house tonight! We don't use solo mics, so I'm counting on the 20TD for its focus, response, and complex tone at full steam.

It's really not so much of a leap of faith. I know what the piece can bring to the table, and I am looking forward to exercising everything it brings for me.

20/20 - King Super 20/Ben Allen 20TD (Rigotti Jazz/FL Ultimate)
Nice ! You should post a clip of you playing with the band - I've wanted to hear you for years, now .

 
#171 ·
WSJ,
I think we have all used rubber band ligatures! I still excited to work on 10* 10E pieces . They are truly eye opening in their "fill the room" fullness. Comparing it to the Dagradi piece in a 10*, the difference is quite significant between the Dagradi 10* and the 10E 10*.

Back to ligatures, I personally don't believe ligatures have a meaningful (enough) impact on a player's tonal characteristics to bother with a lot of expensive ligatures. It's obviously the reed oscillating that generates the standing/pressure/sound/longitudinal wave. Well, the manner in which the reed is clamped/secured to the table can impact the oscillations, but the available ligatures on the market all seem to clamp the reed in a fairly similar manner. That said, when playing the same reed with different ligatures (or several distinct makes of the same ligature), each setup's response is going to feel and potentially sound somewhat distinct. But this applies to placing the same ligature on in a different manner.

Tony sat me through an exercise in which he played the same reed with a Silverstein, an Ishimori, a Vandoren, a BG, a Selmer two screw, a Winslow, and an FL with the heavy brass plate. We both heard slightly distinct tonal changes because the manner in which the reed was being secured changed. After I gathered all these ligatures in a bag (while Tony was not looking) to sell on ebay, Tony and I discussed that we both disliked the Ishimori because it clamped the reed too securely regardless of the placement (the smaller tenor Ishimori ligatures is probably too small for these pieces--as are the two screws on the Ishimori--way too small). The rest were so very close. Within a few minutes of playing the reed will swell into the ligature and any perceived response changes were greatly reduced.

But this is also on a mouthpiece with a "flat" table. On pieces without flat tables, there is a much more significant change. And the reed has to be flat as well, which is one advantage of a nice chunk of granite (or glass?). (Plug for Alexander reeds: Alexander reeds are checked for flatness by the factory; I know this only lasts until the reed swells from moisture, but don't tell that little secret.) The Vandoren Optimum or Leather ligatures with the three plates is my new at home favorite for demonstrating everything I just claimed. The amount of pressure one applies when clamping the reed is hugely important, but the shape of the plate can limit this. Find a ligature that secures the reed in a manner with which you are comfortable and allows you some flexibility, and you will have the impact a ligature has on tone and response resolved. (Also, claims that plating impacts the tonal characteristics and response of a ligature are ridiculous--who came up with such claims?).

Anyway, table and reed flatness are seemingly essential variables. The manner in which a ligature clamps and secures the reed and the degree of force applied in clamping said reed are most significant.
 
#172 ·
I did a similar lig test years ago...and when I got my 20TD I tried it again...by far, the 1/4in cable tie felt and sounded the best...all the commercial ligs seemed to almost deaden the sound....although the piece is very reed friendly, I really prefer either the Zondas or Lavoz...after reading Ben's post, I may have to try the Alexanders...
 
#173 ·
Stan,
Stick with the reeds you know and like! Reed changes should never be necessary for new pieces. I like the harmonic complexity of Alexander Superial and Superial DC on the 10E. No, I love it. I like the Alexander NY on Dagradi's stuff. Also, I have been working with gentlemen who only play Vandoren reeds, and I am really liking the Vandoren Java on just about everything. I think my four favorite reeds for my playing are Vandoren V12, Alexander Classique, and A. Superial DC, and Vandoren Traditional. These reeds are not the most consistent, but I like variability in reed selection or different tonal colors

I may have to try this 1/4 inch cable tie--actually, I will. Dagradi has done this exercise with me several times. Now I know to bring popcorn, a frosty beverage, and 3D glasses when I visit him because I am going to be blown away by something. And he is so humble and kind.

One frustrating thing about Tony is his ability/capacity to demonstrate every pattern in his scale exercises book in every key and every tempo, "'Essential' Scale Studies for Improvisation." http://www.tonydagradi.com/books It's frustrating because no human should be allowed to pull that off. It's not only frustrating; it's irritating as well.
 
#179 ·
Today makes one year with my Ben Allen TD in the standard 102 facing. It has been a pleasure to have gotten deeply into one very good piece and gotten off the mouthpiece merry-go-round. Thanks Ben for putting the quest to rest, I've put them all to the test and this is the best!
 
#181 ·
So, I contacted Ben sometime ago and after some discussion ended up ordering one of these. We settled on a custom 20TD. I'll get into the details in second. The mouthpiece just arrived and it's very very very good. The tuning, playability, response...fantastic. It's a very different animal though than a lot of things in the market, but before I get into the full mini-review, I feel like we just need to listen to the sound first. I recorded these on my cellphone because I was excited to just have something, but it just can't capture the complexity of this piece...one of these days I'll have to use my real microphone setup and try to play some real music.

Ben Allen custom 20TD, Vandoren Blue Box 2.5, Ishimori Bare Brass
Noodling -
Chelsea Bridge -

Now, the details. When I contacted Ben originally, I was asking him what mouthpiece he recommended, and I gave him a description of what I was looking for. This was my explanation of the kind of sound I'm eternally searching for (from a long email I wrote him):

My sound concept can be summarized as a darker, bigger low and mid range, with a brighter higher register with soft edges. Think something like Sonny Rollins, Dexter Gordon, John Coltrane, and Joe Henderson all mashed up and mixed an matched (with a bunch of other random guys thrown). This is the best explanation I can give you!
He recommended I try a 20TD with his larger chamber. I didn't have the money then, so I had to wait a while. Since then, he put a clip of Victor Goines playing a 10E and review by Chris Costigan of the three models. Based on these, I asked that he build a 20TD with the large chamber but also a lower baffle. My description was "something in between your 10E and normal 20TD". I figured the normal 20TD would be too bright and I would overblow it, and I think I was right. I can't imagine this mpc having a smaller chamber than it already does, so I think anyone looking to get one of these ... if you put a lot of air through the horn, get the larger chamber! I think the original 20TD chamber is designed for a smaller, but fast airstream as opposed to the larger, slower airstream people like me prefer.

Given the impossible requirements, Ben really gets this right. Almost perfect. I think it could benefit from being a shade darker and giving me a little more room to blow (in order to facilitate the darker sound of Gene Ammons and guys like that a little easier) but one thing this piece does for me that I don't get from a lot of other pieces is what I like to call "soft edges" in my high register. It's just easier for me to get that quality on this piece than most other link style pieces, which for me get thin when you back down on the air in the high register. Whatever is going on in the baffle and chamber really helps even a smaller airstream stay full and even, where a smaller airstream on a link just gets you a thin sound (for me)... I tried to do the soft edges thing in the higher register in my second clip, so hopefully it comes through a little.

Now, I asked for an 8* tip opening, because that's what I normally like. I can't tell you what the tip size on this one actually is though...the mpc tube it was in says 2.67mm, which is about .105" translated to inches, so Ben may have made a mistake and made me a 7*. IT DOESN'T MATTER, because the mpc plays so well! Normally when I get a mpc that's smaller, I grumble right away and it feels too small, but this one feels good. Whatever it actually is, I think a slightly bigger tip opening will give me what I was looking for in terms of something a shade darker. Maybe when I have more money...

Ben will have to chime in here at some point and verify what size this mouthpiece is, and how much baffle he removed, but whatever it is, I'm exceptionally pleased with this mpc, soundwise. Overall the sound is a little more compact/focused and less "big" sounding than maybe some other pieces I've used, but I feel it has amazing control and flexibility. The chamber is very well balanced. The facing is extremely responsive in all registers, and extremely reed friendly.

Well done Ben, you have another fan. Whenever I can scrounge up some cash, I'd definitely love to get a 10E as well (probably in something moderate like an 8) and maybe another 20TD like this, but bigger.
 
#183 ·
Been on the 10E 7 for about 6 months now. It's by far the best straight ahead mouthpiece available in my opinion. (for my concept at least)

Thanks Ben!!!!!!

-Chris
Yes, he mentioned to me (after hearing some clips of my sound on various links) that I may like the 10E more. Well, if he says so, then I believe him. One day....but for now, THIS particular 20TD is great. I think the standard one (higher baffle, ML chamber) would just be way too bright for me, unless I ended up getting a large tip opening (like a 9/9*), based purely on the sample size of one that I have (which has a larger chamber and lower baffle). I don't know how high the baffle is on the normal version, but it would probably sound something like Guardala Brecker territory for me, based purely on the one I have.
 
#184 ·
I just bought a 20TD from another SOTW member a few days ago who thought it was a .105, seems like it, but I don't know how custom it is. It doesn't have a pronounced baffle and the chamber may be just slightly smaller than the Tenney Jazzmaster I have been playing for years. After trying some different reeds (good thing I had some other brands), settled on some Rogotti's I had sitting in my drawer. It is definitely quite a change from what I am used to, but mostly in a fantastic way. It is so much easier to play, the response is superior, it can still do the breathy soft thing, but also is much easier to play loud and fast. I really have loved my Jazzmaster and the dark smoke it offers, but I recently got another horn that leans toward the dark side than my others, and it was just getting to be too much work.

I initially wrote to Ben asking about possibly purchasing one of his pieces, but at that point, I was still completely committed to my Jazzmaster and he told me it was one of the best mouthpieces available and to just stick with it. I normally don't like to change mouthpieces very often because I tend to get imprinted to a particular one and find switching is a cumbersome pain. It is early yet, but so far so sweet!

I have learned about these options here and am very grateful for this resource. Thanks!
 
#188 ·
I STILL love the two Ben Allen pieces I have and they are the main mouthpieces I play every day. The TD has now overtaken the 10E but I love them both. Just selling the remains of my collection at mouthpiecehut.com on consignment. I had an epiphany at an outdoor gig with a 1000 dollar link and the Ben Allen. My "Benny" just killed and projected and gave me the feedback resistance wise and sound wise that gave me the good feeling playing with a Chu tenor. The TD seems to kill on my Mark VI. Both worked well on the Viking horn. There are many great pieces out there both vintage and modern that do the job. I just think that the depth and modern pop are both there with the Allen pieces and they cut all the gigs. Plus, the sound is thick and rich. I still recommend them to anyone who wants a great piece that is handmade. For me, nothing beats Ben Allen's mouthpieces...
 
#193 ·
Great post,Tim!
Agree entirely.

I too love both my 20TDs and the 10E.
Although the 10E has a somewhat brighter eq than the Tenney Jazzmaster, I love them both.

I am in mpc heaven
Thank you, Ben Allen
 
#189 ·
Thanks for the unintended wakeup call, Tim.

I've been playing a Lamberson J115 that is pretty special (Fred made it for himself) for the last year on my Borgani. Your post became a mindworm yesterday, and reminded me that I had set aside the "Benny" (I like that moniker) to wait for the right reeds. Since yesterday was a snow day for me, I went to the ol' reed box, pulled out a fresh box of Rigotti Jazz 3 Mediums, and set up a few to break in on my "Benny" (.1023"). Last night, I showed up to big band rehearsal a lil' early, set up, and started warming up. The band leader came over to me and commented on how good I sounded. OK, when HE notices, I listen. He previously expressed a liking for the Lamberson setup too, but this combo seems to have more projection in a large space, as well as a more crisp response. We've a club gig in a couple weeks and a dance at the convention center after that, so I'm looking forward to renewing my acquaintance with this piece. Thanks again.
 
#191 ·
Hah! That'll be Mindworm II. I was happy with the TD on my Super 20 last year, but got into the same issue with reeds on it, and went back to my Lamberson L7 (.110) on that horn. I'll have to fire up the TD with these harder Rigottis and see where that takes me. But I'm going to save that experiment for a lil' later, and commit to working exclusively on the Benny/Borgani setup 'til after these next gigs.

Best to ya!

And, lest I neglect, a shout out of "Thanks!" to Ben Allen.
 
#196 ·
I have found a piece as good or better than my beloved BE TD tenor. It is , alas, another Ben Allen TD tenor. I bit warmer just perfect. hard to put down. Thanks Leon.
Hah! You had me going for a moment. Good one!

I might have ordered one based on Dr. G's suggestion but when I went to the website it said there weren't any available.
Persist - order one. Tell Ben that I sent you. :bluewink:

No, wait. That might cost you even more. :shock:
 
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