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Is this really a Conn saxophone?

8K views 31 replies 12 participants last post by  badenia 
#1 ·
Hi Guys,

Any comments on this American Professional Sax>?

Bicycle part Musical instrument Wind instrument Human leg Brass instrument
 
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#2 ·
Judging by the soldered and beveled tone holes, it is more likely to be a Martin.

Some more pictures would help us pin it down: the serial number region and the left pinky cluster are two things that come immediately to mind...
 
#12 ·
All are wrong......It was made by Courturier probably for Lyon & Healy. Different guard from a Conn, soldered tone holes, concave G# which would put it in the 1923-27 period. Teh neck tenon on the body also may have a horizontal and vertical slot. Made in Laporte Indiana. Looks like someone tried to Connify this one.
 
#14 ·
All are wrong......It was made by Courturier probably for Lyon & Healy. Different guard from a Conn, soldered tone holes, concave G# which would put it in the 1923-27 period. Teh neck tenon on the body also may have a horizontal and vertical slot. Made in Laporte Indiana.
I stand corrected, Bruce. For everyone's benefit, here's my remedial education on Courturier, provided by an old SOTW thread - http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?122728-Couturier-Saxophones - first link on Google...

Compare the lettering of bell engraving from that thread and the serial number to the OP's saxophone. Looks very similar to me...

Also, Martin stamped their serial number digits in a semi-circle and spelled out "low pitch" rather than abbreviating it with "L." Evidently, Courturier abbreviated the "A" and "L" and everything is in a straight line...similar to Conn in layout but not in font...

Looks like someone tried to Connify this one.
My take on the "Connification" of that sax: "Epic fail." :mrgreen:
 
#15 ·
Bruce is right.

Although most of us ( I did too) have grown to think that Martin was the only company which made saxophones with bevelled toneholes this is far from true.

Several brands ( Early Buescher, King, Keilwerth New Kings II, Couturiers which include some Lyon and Healey, Couesnon, all appear to have had bevelled toneholes at some stage and while most abandoned them, Martin appears to have been carrying on with this feature until the end.

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?207858-Unique-Martin-Key-Guards
http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?191851-Beveled-tone-holes

Also " American Professional" have been discussed before (and at that time of the first of these threads, but not the second or third, Bruce seemed to think it was a Martin too)

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showth...mething-about-quot-American-Professional-quot
http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?163249-Lyon-Healy-American-Professional
http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?37334-American-Professional-Alto
 
#18 ·
It has the Mercedes key-guard over the c-cup. That says Conn.

It has no front F. That says very early, if Conn.

It has no rolled tone holes. That says very early or stencil, if Conn. If it's a Conn stencil, why is the name "Conn" engraved on it ?

The style of the serial number engraving says Conn, yet the bevelled tone-holes are not Conn.

It's either a rare pre-1906 Conn, or an imitation — if the latter, it's most intriguing — the Conn equivalent of a Keating painting…

I'm stumped.
 
#28 ·
It has the Mercedes key-guard over the c-cup. That says Conn.

It has no front F. That says very early, if Conn.

It has no rolled tone holes. That says very early or stencil, if Conn. If it's a Conn stencil, why is the name "Conn" engraved on it ?

The style of the serial number engraving says Conn, yet the bevelled tone-holes are not Conn.

It's either a rare pre-1906 Conn, or an imitation - if the latter, it's most intriguing - the Conn equivalent of a Keating painting…

I'm stumped.
It's not a Conn

That pinkie table looks very SML rev A style to me.
Not much else does though.
It's not an SML

Now I'm thinking Buescher.
It's not a Buescher
Did you guys read the posts by Bruce and Milandro? Sheesh :faceinpalm:
 
#20 ·
yes, all of those pseudo Conn-similarities are to be found in the threads that I mentioned above (if one has the patient to follow those they will find that)

but even more here

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/forumdisplay.php?384-Couturier-Lyon-amp-Healy

Couturier-Lyon and Healey are still, and obviously have been misidentified before. This misidentification might have brought someone to unwittingly add a Conn engraving.

America Professional are not a Conn made saxophone

The mercedes benz guard was NOT exclusive to Conn, it was indeed used by other brands, Couturier-Lyon and Healey and it was ALSO used by early Rampone e Cazzani.
 
#21 ·
Look at that low C guard as it is not the same as a Conn in the Mercedes style. The arm that covers the felt bumper is longer than the other 2. The G# lever is concave and not L shaped (also working low C#) like the later L&H/Holton horns made after 1927. I have owned several L&H saxes, 3 in alto and there is no doubt that this horn was made by Courturier.
 
#30 ·
Before you all get so crabby about your posts not being read you may wish to consider that when I posted my thoughts I was using an iPad and these links were not showing or working for some reason.
Also, pointing out similarities to other makes is hardly a definitive answer, just an observation.
I was making an observation as I am not an authority on all makes and models of saxophones.
 
#31 ·
I am glad to see that the existence of the Couturier saxophone is no longer a matter in question.

When the Moers-Festival is over (last evening The Sun Ra Arkestra gave a great concert conducted by the 90 years old Allan Marshal) I'd like to add a trivia on comparing Couturier saxophones with other brands.
 
#32 ·
Hello La Porte!!

Glad to see you chime in on this one. By the way I have seen some L&H Trojans that look very much like Pan American models, likely the short lived 46M. Have you seen these?

I have only seen one L&H American Professional coming from the Pan American line and it had the "P" style serial number.

Kurt
 
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