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King Super 20 ..the best

38K views 44 replies 27 participants last post by  buddy lee 
#1 ·
My Series 2 Super 20..I think it has to be the best tenor saxophone I have ever played /owned..I never fail to be impressed by it's sheer mojo..and I find I have to work so much less on my sound than on my V1 which I've played for years. The King is just all tone. I have owned 2 Kings before. The 1A had a great sound but it was a little dark for my tastes and the intonation was quirky..the palm keys notes were very vague and hard to centre invariably sharp. My Series 2 is on the right side of brightness for me but still fat and complex .and the resistance and intonation are really predictable ..It has for me the classic King sound heard from early Griffin to my favourite Jon Smith. A keeper I can't see me letting go of this horn.
I really would like a baritone with the same ballsy sound...I love my V1 but I had a shock when I tried a Martin...the tone was outstanding and leapt out with no effort. The same when I tried a Buescher THC alto... I feel like I've been missing out all my life.
 
#40 ·
I got my King Super 20 tenor, Cleveland, 367xxx today!...I just got thru playing on it...my first impression of it was...Wow, how strange, the horn is very light and the key action just felt strange. I've been playing a bn Keilwerth SX90r tenor for the past year and a half or so, and so am used to the Keilwerth now.
The King plays pretty nice, has a big sound, has oddles of character/resonance to the sound, not like the silver Yamahaha 82Z which I finally got rid of, though I think the Keilwerth is much bigger sounding, with the added character/resonance. The Keilwerth, at least the one that I have, I bought it on here, is no joke!...actually it play's circles around this King. This King is very good, also has great intonation, but it's not all that...granted the super 20 is the best alto that I've played, but this tenor is just ok, compared to my alto which is excellent!...I've played on several King tenor's, and I think the Mark VI tenor's are a lot better in so many ways, by far.

Anyways, for now, the King will be my back-up, will play it later on tonight...but this Keilwerth that I have, it's da bomb!l..I think they are very underrated. There's a video of Kirk Whalum where he say's that he's played on a lot of horns, but he like's his SX90r the best, out of all the horn's he's played...now I see why. Anyways, now that I have this King Super 20 tenor out of my system now, lol...I can now relax as I was waiting all week for it to arrive, lol.
 
#41 ·
Make sure it's set up very well ... Kings are picky with their set-ups. Also, the Series III is a COMPLETELY different animal to the earlier Series I and Ia models.

You are right though, Keilwerths can be BEASTS too.
 
#42 ·
Hey Simon, the horn was packed very well, with nothing smashed/damaged. I got it from Saxquest, the horn plays easily/effortlessly from top to bottom...subtones easily, palm keys are nice and fat, altissimo is beautiful, easy to play and very in tune...it's just the Keilwerth does everything the King does, but so much more!...FATTER palm keys, they are very thick sounding...subtones easily, fat sound throughout the horn, paired with my Florida link, it's the best sounding horn/mpc combination I've had so far! The altissimo on the Keilwerth is a lot harder to play, have to work at it harder and it uses different fingerings, where as the altissimo is a piece of cake on the King, uses the same fingerings as Selmer/Yamahahaha, and it does sound much fatter/richer than the Keilwerth.

But your right, I will take it to my tech for an overall inspection, and have him check it out thoroughly, it could be leaking, but for now, it play's amazingly well...Well, you know, cause you used to play Keilwerth's too...I just feel that it's very hard to beat a Keilwerth.

The thing I like with the King is that I can play it with either the Link, and/or it takes my Berg ss 120/0 offset sms very easily. It doesn't sound harsh or thin at all. I get a thick sound with the berg, the King really comes alive than, kind of more so than the Link, get more like a Felder sound, but with the Link I get a thick sound as well, more of a Rollins sound, they both sound great just different...The Keilwerth only likes the Link, and sound's like sh#$ with the berg. Oh, and the placement of the palm keys feel totally weird on the King, compared to the Keilwerth. They just feel out of place,lol.

And the King feels sooo light, compared to the Keilwerth, that it feels like playing a toy!:laughing:...but the bell on the King, holy moly!...it's HUGE, a lot bigger than the Keilwerth! I now have the house to myself, so I am going to play the King alot more now, see what more I can get out of it.
 
#43 ·


The King / Keilwerth comparison is an interesting one that I am enjoying right now. I've been playing this super 20 tenor since the late 80's. This past summer I purchased the Keilwerth EX90 - series II as an additional horn, a bit more restrained and refined than the King. I always have admired the sound that Jame Houlik produced from his Couf tenors in the classical setting. In my experience, the Super 20 is a bit of a bull in a china closet in concert bands and orchestras.

When I picked up the Keilwerth, the Super 20 was playing on 10 year old Roo pads with Noyek resonators. It was time for an overhaul for sure. So, the Keilwerth became my go to horn for the past four month while I gathered the funds to re-do my baby. Well the King has returned with domed plastic resonators and music medic leather pads. As for the resonators, not much has changed. The horn plays in tune and the sound is really no different.

The comparison:

I played both horns with a Brass Ponzol M2 110. It is kind of a cross between a Larson and a Link.

When I first got the King back it seemed kinda' quiet compared to the Keilwerth............After more playing, I realized that it really is not. It is just a bit more resistant. The Keilwerth gives the impression of massive power, but part of that is how free playing the horn is. The low notes and bell keys are really pretty exceptional. The big difference is tonal flexibility. The Keilwerth is more uniform from soft to loud. The king is very warm when played softly, but lights up like a firecracker when pushed.

In the vernacular of a sound man -

The Keilwerth has a really strong lows and highs. The mid range is dialed back. This gives the horn lots of presence and it shimmers.

The King is very balanced, with a strong mids. It has a very solid core to the sound. It is dense and fat.

After a couple of hours playing the King again, I feel a bit constricted by the Keilwerth. I can get outside the box with the King. The Keilwerth is a very big playground, but there are walls.

Mechanically they are quite different too, but nothing insurmountable. I think this is an area where the EX90 was perhaps built to a price point. The keyword feels kind of soft. The key heights are high, the springs newish and the horn feels big. It will likely need to treat the horn with care. The King is just the opposite, very tough, but supple and compact. After being on the Keilwerth for 4 months I did feel the need to put a key riser on the high D key on the King for the first time ever. I really like it!

They are both great horns in uniquely different ways. I think they both will remain in the house. Is it possible for a King and a New King to live in harmony?
 
#45 ·
Interesting comparison up there between the S20 and Keilwerth. I still have a Series II Super 20, and I used to own a Keilwerth SX90R (I sold it to purchase a Borgani Jubilee).

I couldn't deal with the Keilwerth's disturbing lack of core. It was huge and loud, but the sound just seemed to go everywhere... it didn't give me the feedback I like when I'm playing. I now own 4 ridiculously good tenors (S20, Borgani Jubilee, Mark VI, Martin Comm 3), and they all give me varying degrees of things I like. The S20 is possibly the most enjoyable to play, despite the weird octave mechanism feel. It sounds amazing, and works well with whatever mpc I use.

I can say that all of my horns are keepers for sure, and I realize how blessed I am to own them.
 
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