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Info on Chinese Bass Sax

10K views 19 replies 11 participants last post by  Grumps 
#1 ·
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#4 ·
I've seen these Chinese bass saxophones at the NAMM Show a few years ago. They were showing two different models . . . one model based on the old Conn/Buescher body and the other model based on the Selmer MKVI-style (smaller tube).

I heard both being played and there was a distinct difference between the two designs - the Conn/Buescher model having a much bigger sound. This seemed typical of my previous experiences in bands where I've heard both styles played for real - the Conn/Buescher being the more desirable sound, at least to my ears. DAVE
 
#5 ·
I heard both being played and there was a distinct difference between the two designs - the Conn/Buescher model having a much bigger sound. This seemed typical of my previous experiences in bands where I've heard both styles played for real - the Conn/Buescher being the more desirable sound, at least to my ears. DAVE
Of those two designs, the ones I have seen have been like that, however the Selmer style being very nicely made, the others not so, not so easy to play (and I'm used to playing a Busecher TT bass)
 
#10 ·
I've got both types of Chinese bass - the large bore Conn/Buescher style (JinYin or Lang) one isn't particularly well built, the keywork fit is sloppy and not the most ergonomic (definitely won't suit anyone with small hands or short fingers) but it does have a big sound. I'm currently selling mine so PM me if inerested.

The Selmer style (JinBao) is far better built and feels much better under the fingers (even though there's a lot of torsion in the long rods which does feel squishy) but the tone is far more refined and it plays more like a big bari in comparison to the American style bass. I prefer this one as it's much easier for me to get on with as I prefer the more compact design and modern keywork, but it would be nice if someone made a large bore short wrap bass with Selmer style keywork.

In both cases, middle D isn't the best note on these basses due to the position/size of the lower 8ve vent so it will need some work from the player to make it speak cleanly - you can use the palm D key as a vent to help it, but experiment with reeds and mouthpiece facings for the best results.
 
#11 ·
I've got one in for repair at the moment (transit damage job). Not sure which model it is as I haven't got around to starting the job yet.
I'll probably do a review of it at some point.

From the models I've played (at Frankfurt) I'd be inclined to say the Selmer design is the safest bet - but I'd agree with Chris in that the sound is more like that of an Uber-bari than a bass.
I would imagine some judicious mouthpiece tweaking would mellow things out a bit.
 
#13 ·
Thanks everyone for the feedback and help. In the end, I bought the one made by Jinbao, which I assume is the Selmer copy. It came quickly after my order but when I took it out of its case and tried to play it - nada. Apparently, someone along the way was not kind to the saxophone. I brought it to my repairman who said that it probably toppled over in the box/case at some point. Everything was thrown out of whack. Still, even with the hefty repair price - my guy had to spend close to 25 hours to bring it up to the point where it could be played - it was still nearly half of what I would have paid had I bought the same horn from a retail outlet in the UK, where I originally saw the horn. So I'm a pretty happy fellow.

As a footnote to this experience, I tried to get the company or Fed Ex China to take some responsibility and help me out on the repair bill, but no dice. The company said that it had to be Fed Ex's fault and Fed Ex said that because there was no visible damage to the outer packaging, it wasn't responsible either. I don't know if any lessons can be drawn from this experience but, as I said above, I still came out way ahead in the deal.

Does anyone have an opinion about the best compact case for this kind of bass sax? The one that came with the horn is built like a coffin made for John Goodman and weighs almost as much as the sax itself.

Bob
 
#14 ·
It's a shame these basses come in the Selmer style case rather than a shaped case like the Conn/Buescher style Chinese bass as they are pretty good cases but only fit the American style basses. The plastic shoulder strap buckle/slide thing broke on my case soon followed by the D rings at both ends failing to take the strain, so I have to rely on the webbing handles to do their job which isn't easy for climbing stairs with the thing - it could do with an extra handle nearer the end of the case to allow it to be carried at an angle when using stairs but due to the polystyrene construction, that's not likely and neither will stitching an extra webbing handle to the case fabric on the long side (parallel with the zip) as chances are that will rip straight off.

I've been playing mine a lot over the last few months in a marching band which was an interesting experience, but it definitely was up to the task and the low Bb definitely belted out when I wanted it to, so it was nice to be playing a lot of music in Concert Eb and Ab Major which made good use of low Bb. I played from BBb bass parts as they're written in treble clef and 'National Emblem' definitely made use of the low Bbs but I had to watch the middle Ds so they didn't overblow which they were inclined to do at ff levels. I used the Jazzlab harness for marching as it could be hidden under my uniform jacket but due to the playing angle the left side of the harness would lift up which was cured by putting both the shoulder brackets under my shirt epaulettes.
 
#16 ·
An update on the Jinbao Bass saxes, since I was looking into them (out of curiosity as much as anything, but also because I'm a lot closer to China than most of you and Tianjin is a short boat ride/flight away, and I was thinking of dropping in to try one out, if it might cut some cost from buying one). I found the website:

http://jinbaomusic.com/english/showpro.asp?id=1013&sortid=2&typeid=3

and found the SRP on the site, which is listed here:

http://www.jinbaomusic.cn/ProductDetail.asp?bh=JB-8965

But, the price listed on the website is much higher than what Wessex Tubas charges for Jinbao baris already shipped to the USA.

http://www.wessex-tubas.com/bass-saxophone/

That is, the SRP on the Jinbao website for the JBBS-120 Bass sax is RMB52000.00 (just short of $8400 USD). I emailed to inquire about this, thinking it might be an error or an out-of-date price, but the representative I corresponded with (someone named Jessica Duan -- it doesn't seem to be Lucy Liu any longer, ahem) said that it is the current price in their E-shop. She said that if someone came to the factory in Tianjin to pick up (and paid cash, ahem) there would be a "special discount" of 20%, making it RMB41600.00. (Which is about $6700 US.) When I asked how their "bottom price" was still $1700 more than through Wessex, despite the shipping and whatever profit margin Wessex is getting (and which I don't begrudge them) the response was basically, "Ha, wow, I have no idea, but are you still interested?"

(Um... maybe in buying one from Wessex... especially when, at least over here in Korea, when you pay cash and get a discount, you get no receipt, maybe no warranty, and definitely the dealer pays no tax on the sale... and that's on top of it costing more on its own than it would through Wessex.)

On top of that, the Jinbao website doesn't even mention two lacquer options at all, like Wessex does. Which makes me wonder if Jinbao's discontinued whatever Wessex is selling, or what.
 
#17 ·
That is, the SRP on the Jinbao website for the JBBS-120 Bass sax is RMB52000.00 (just short of $8400 USD).
I believe this is way higher than the price I was quoted at the Musikmesse. However there I would have been viewed as a dealer and so quoted dealer prices. If you are talking to them as a consumer things will obviously be different.

It could be that a year or two back they were happy sellling to consumers at the factory price, but once they started to get a large number of trade orders, the dealers would, quite understandably, want them to stop selling to the public in return for buying large(ish) numbers.

So the 20% discount is just a discount off an RRP which is probably as far as their dealer contracts might allow them. The shop you quote (Wessex) may be selling off unwanted stock and cutting their losses, who knows.

20% cannot be the difference between a factory or dealer price and retail, I would think it must be at least 50% in order for any kind of profit margin.
 
#18 ·
Thanks for the insight, Pete.

My understanding (from reading about it online in various places) was that Wessex has been selling these Jinbao horns for a while, but only bringing them in one horn at a time by agreement with Jinbao. (ie. They shouldn't have unwanted stock, and the price cited now is consistent with the past price.) That may have dated, of course. I'll inquire with Wessex, if it seems likely I'm in the market for a bass sax this summer, though I'm contemplating holding off on bass for a few years and just hunting out a bari (which is hard enough to find in South Korea as it is).

And yeah, it makes sense the dealer price would be lower, I was just gobsmacked it was so much lower that it's cheaper to buy from an American dealer than from the factory directly. But what you say about contracted restrictions may make sense... though I don't think there's any kind of contract exclusivity. (And, also, when they start talking pay in cash, it becomes semi-under the table and, well... you expect more discount.)

Ah well. There is a single Chinese bass at the local music market in Seoul, hanging from the wall. I didn't know enough when I glimpsed it last week to figure out what kind of stencil it was, or who manufactured it, but next time I pass through that market I'll ask and see if I can try it. (Though I'd wager they'd marked it up to some even crazier price... unless they just want to get rid of it, which is possible.) But I'm guessing I'll have to go for a bari, and maybe that's wiser anyway... the expat life involves enough moving and hauling stuff around as it is.
 
#19 ·
Hi guys- I was formerly an active member but for the last half dozen years family and work commitments reduced me to a lurker. Now I have the time to get back to participating more actively so I look forward to resuming ;)

I ordered a Jinbao bass through the US office of Wessex and had it shipped late last year to Vernon, Canada. Wessex is primarily a brass horn (tubas, French horns etc) seller, but because of its relationship with its supplier Jinbao, Wessex is able to deliver a Jinbao bass sax periodically at a reasonable price. I was very happy with the service that I received from Jonathan Hodgetts (Wessex UK office) and Andy Loree (US office) and would have no reservation in recommending them. As you would expect with a large horn shipped all the way from China, there were some adjustments that had to be made by my tech when I received the sax (dislodged keys, etc) but after an hours work the horn played very, very well. I also have (on loan) a 1926 silver Buescher True Tone bass sax, and there is no comparison - the Jinbao is far ahead in terms of ease of play, compact design, modern keywork and higher range (keyed to F#).
Regarding comments about the difference in tone between the short wrap Jinbao and the long wrap Buescher, a large part of what difference there is depends on the mouthpiece and the reed being used- as well as how you play them. With the large bore mouthpiece that was supplied, and the use of a Legere bass reed, I don't notice that significant a difference.

Alec
 
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