Stan Getz vs John Coltrane

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    Default Stan Getz vs John Coltrane

    I saw this thread on another site but it was closed.

    I can't believe the number of people who prefer Getz's playing over Coltrane's, calling Coltrane emotionless (I understand the avant garde stuff is a bit out there but not Coltrane as a whole).

    Apparently Coltrane said of Getz "we'd all sound like that if we could". If he meant it, then what can I say but in my mind Coltrane was not only lightyears ahead technically, his tone, his emotion, his sound gets me and he takes me far away on an amazing journey which leaves Getz tootling around not doing anything for me. When Getz plays Ballads and especially bossa's I smell cheese...I find him incredibly cheesy!!! When Coltrane plays All or Nothing at all, you can hear uncertainness and slight desperation, when he plays Lush Life - its so intense and beautiful that it centres you on the present moment and everything else falls into the background. When he plays Giant Steps, I feel like I'm a rocket myself and am going to take off!! Over a period of about 2 years he has became my favourite saxophonist, taking the throne from Dexter Gordon - I still love Dexter though!

    Although I'm nowhere near Getz standard, I don't ever want to end up sounding like him. One of my friends who is a great tenor player was stunned when I said this!! I think I was this close to getting a friendly clip round the ear!

    Anyways, I'd like to hear your views just for fun!! If you're a Getz fan, I'd love to know some tunes that might change my mind, even if they are Bossas!

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    Default Re: Stan Getz vs John Coltrane


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    Default Re: Stan Getz vs John Coltrane

    ]Either you have not sufficiently checked out Getz' discography, or you are not a mature enough listener to appreciate him yet. For me, both were the case 20 years ago, but now I love both of these players pretty much equally.

    Do yourself a huge favor and check out Getz' 50s-60s stuff you have no idea what you are missing. He was a complete prodigy and a total genius. For starters get the album For Musicians Only, and then buy this boxed set http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stan-Getz-Au...item4845e58536

    As good as he was in the 70s and 80s, and he was excellent, i pretty much ignore most of it, and listen to his 40s -60s output.


    Quote Originally Posted by ThelmaTheSelmer View Post
    I saw this thread on another site but it was closed.

    I can't believe the number of people who prefer Getz's playing over Coltrane's, calling Coltrane emotionless (I understand the avant garde stuff is a bit out there but not Coltrane as a whole).

    Apparently Coltrane said of Getz "we'd all sound like that if we could". If he meant it, then what can I say but in my mind Coltrane was not only lightyears ahead technically, his tone, his emotion, his sound gets me and he takes me far away on an amazing journey which leaves Getz tootling around not doing anything for me. When Getz plays Ballads and especially bossa's I smell cheese...I find him incredibly cheesy!!! When Coltrane plays All or Nothing at all, you can hear uncertainness and slight desperation, when he plays Lush Life - its so intense and beautiful that it centres you on the present moment and everything else falls into the background. When he plays Giant Steps, I feel like I'm a rocket myself and am going to take off!! Over a period of about 2 years he has became my favourite saxophonist, taking the throne from Dexter Gordon - I still love Dexter though!

    Although I'm nowhere near Getz standard, I don't ever want to end up sounding like him. One of my friends who is a great tenor player was stunned when I said this!! I think I was this close to getting a friendly clip round the ear!

    Anyways, I'd like to hear your views just for fun!! If you're a Getz fan, I'd love to know some tunes that might change my mind, even if they are Bossas!
    "We sax players need to stick together and save the world." Sonny Rollins, 1993 after a show.

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    Default Re: Stan Getz vs John Coltrane

    Tastes evolve and change over time. I think it's good that you're really enthusiastic about Coltrane, the music and the man. But don't be surprised if you find yourself digging Getz a lot more at some later time in your life. He had a phenomenal technique and could turn a melodic phrase without apparent effort.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9flEPnKhD7E
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    Default Re: Stan Getz vs John Coltrane

    I'm sorry,but how someone would hope to never sound like Getz..............beyond me,but you're entitled to your opinion

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    Default Re: Stan Getz vs John Coltrane

    I preferred listening to each play their music,
    Both--- what a joy to hear.

    I could care less about what ‘dirt’ they were dishing
    or who’s act people were ‘dising’.

    To both I am grateful for in my heart
    I hold each ---close and near.

    DDR-> Gone rhyme book hunting

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    Default Re: Stan Getz vs John Coltrane

    I am in the Getz corner myself. Never could "warm up" to Coltrane.

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    Default Re: Stan Getz vs John Coltrane

    You're absolutely allowed to have a favorite sax player - we all do. But it is childish to compare two totally different styles. In a nutshell, Coltrane moved into what he termed 'hate music' during the early '60s and this set the tone for the rest of his career. Getz was less flexible and never changed his style, yet continued refining it to the end. He was a practicioner, perhaps the premier one, of the 'modern jazz' 'cool' school. His music, like Brubeck's, was cerebral in nature. Pure, cool and brilliant. Coltrane developed that trademark 'stridency' in his playing, and with that and his innovative technique was able to bring great intensity and tension with his playing, which made the transition from his mind to the listener's. Both these players are all-time 'Greats', but comparing them is beyond pointless.

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    Default Re: Stan Getz vs John Coltrane

    Interestingly, and I have no reason to think that these posts are related, there is some comment in the 'Jazz Improvisation with Gary Burton' thread that are related to comments about Stan Getz's playing. I'm in the Coltrane camp but this is not an either/or world.

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    Default Re: Stan Getz vs John Coltrane

    Quote Originally Posted by 1saxman View Post
    You're absolutely allowed to have a favorite sax player - we all do. But it is childish to compare two totally different styles. In a nutshell, Coltrane moved into what he termed 'hate music' during the early '60s and this set the tone for the rest of his career. Getz was less flexible and never changed his style, yet continued refining it to the end. He was a practicioner, perhaps the premier one, of the 'modern jazz' 'cool' school. His music, like Brubeck's, was cerebral in nature. Pure, cool and brilliant. Coltrane developed that trademark 'stridency' in his playing, and with that and his innovative technique was able to bring great intensity and tension with his playing, which made the transition from his mind to the listener's. Both these players are all-time 'Greats', but comparing them is beyond pointless.
    Just about sums it up-- well put

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    Default Re: Stan Getz vs John Coltrane

    I love Getz's earlier playing -- I can relate to it. It's enjoyable to listen to. Coltrane's stuff -- this is more like work for me. Most of his stuff is not enjoyable to listen to, but I realize, I am just not getting it because a lot of local guys that I really dig are Trane devotees.
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    Default Re: Stan Getz vs John Coltrane

    Quote Originally Posted by 1saxman View Post
    You're absolutely allowed to have a favorite sax player - we all do. But it is childish to compare two totally different styles. In a nutshell, Coltrane moved into what he termed 'hate music' during the early '60s and this set the tone for the rest of his career. Getz was less flexible and never changed his style, yet continued refining it to the end. He was a practicioner, perhaps the premier one, of the 'modern jazz' 'cool' school. His music, like Brubeck's, was cerebral in nature. Pure, cool and brilliant. Coltrane developed that trademark 'stridency' in his playing, and with that and his innovative technique was able to bring great intensity and tension with his playing, which made the transition from his mind to the listener's. Both these players are all-time 'Greats', but comparing them is beyond pointless.
    You have made this statement before about Coltrane's alleged self-entitled "hate music". Would you please point out where you got this information. I have never seen anything that resembles this in any book or article. What I did find was that certain critics of that period called his music that.

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    Default Re: Stan Getz vs John Coltrane

    Quote Originally Posted by shotgun View Post
    Tastes evolve and change over time. I think it's good that you're really enthusiastic about Coltrane, the music and the man. But don't be surprised if you find yourself digging Getz a lot more at some later time in your life. He had a phenomenal technique and could turn a melodic phrase without apparent effort.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9flEPnKhD7E
    This is exactly my experience. I was and still am a huge Michael Brecker fan, Coltrane too and loved all the wild, loud and crazy playing and still do. I didn't listen to Getz at all really and had no time for it. 20 years later and Getz is one of my favorite players of all time. Yes, it's amazing how your tastes change. I'm guessing you are quite young, Thelmer. Believe me, one day your tastes will change. Listen to all the greats, often. It's the only way to become a complete player and portray the history of the instrument in your own playing.

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    Default Re: Stan Getz vs John Coltrane

    1saxman,

    The idea of Trane self-labling his music "hate music", especially in the EARLY sixties just doesn't seem to jibe with the interviews I've heard, read - and with the music itself. The below is from "Trane On The Track" by Ira Gitler, published in DownBeat in 1958:

    "Asked about being termed an "angry young tenor" in this publication's coverage of the 1958 Newport Jazz festival, John Coltrane said, "If it is interpreted as angry, it is taken wrong. The only one I'm angry at is myself when I don't make what I'm trying to play."

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    Default Re: Stan Getz vs John Coltrane

    I was going to say. Trane's "difficult" late period was when he was most focused on the spiritual. He was constantly evolving, pushing the envelope. That didn't keep him from participating on Kind of Blue and creating A Love Supreme, the two most celebrated jazz albums.

    Getz's earlier be-bop work gets overlooked by many.. (Check out his stuff with Jim Raney.) He did settle into a most beautiful comfort zone by the time he teamed up with Gilbert. If Girl from Ipanema isn't the most satisfying jazz pop single, I don't know what is.

    To each his own, if making a choice is necessary. I can only say my Coltrane collection is fairly sizable, and his discs are on regular rotation on the turntable.

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    Default Re: Stan Getz vs John Coltrane

    We had a similar thing go down on a thread in the reeds section when Paul Desmond came up. I think Getz is the real unappreciated giant and his influence on players can not be under estimated. The fact that he clearly influenced how Joe Henderson approached tenor is what really won me over. And he was clearly coming out of the Lester Young/Wardell Grey camp as opposed to the later Coleman Hawkins/Dexter Gordon camp. This may sound strange but Trane approached ballads as delicately as Getz, you have to really listen though, not so much tone wise and phrasing but the support in the upper register is the key to their similarity to my ears . It's a tenor thing I guess.

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    Default Re: Stan Getz vs John Coltrane

    One of my favorite Getz dates is the Stitt and Dizzy recording, Stan could just flat-out cook. What has to really be understood about Trane is that the influence Dolphy had on him, so much so that he took on enormous criticism where others would have caved.

    Quote Originally Posted by rzzzzz View Post
    I was going to say. Trane's "difficult" late period was when he was most focused on the spiritual. He was constantly evolving, pushing the envelope. That didn't keep him from participating on Kind of Blue and creating A Love Supreme, the two most celebrated jazz albums.

    Getz's earlier be-bop work gets overlooked by many.. (Check out his stuff with Jim Raney.) He did settle into a most beautiful comfort zone by the time he teamed up with Gilbert. If Girl from Ipanema isn't the most satisfying jazz pop single, I don't know what is.

    To each his own, if making a choice is necessary. I can only say my Coltrane collection is fairly sizable, and his discs are on regular rotation on the turntable.

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    Default Re: Stan Getz vs John Coltrane

    If anyone wants to read what Coltrane thought about his music here are a few links. I have been a fan of Coltrane's for 50 years and never have I read or heard any reference from or about him relative to hate music. Actually most things he says seem to be the complete opposite.
    http://media.wix.com/ugd//645dee_d58...06f4f12b31.pdf
    http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/showthread.php?t=30638
    http://topics.nytimes.com/top/refere...ane/index.html
    http://www.criticalimprov.com/article/view/87/186

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    Default Re: Stan Getz vs John Coltrane

    Quote Originally Posted by mrsaxpunk View Post
    Thanks for this, I can understand what you're getting at and I can hear Getz is putting his vibrato in for feeling but this tune is a perfect example of why I have yet to find a Get tune I like. His vibrato sounds horrible to me. The first part of this tune, which I can understand he is trying to play with emotion, sounds to me almost clownish with the over exaggerated vibrato. It's just horrible.

    This is obviously just opinions we're expressing here, but I wondered if anyone else really doesn't get Getz or maybe does and posts a tune that grabs me. And I like said before, it's just fun, this thread has been done elsewhere and I missed out so I wanted an opportunity to get people's takes on Coltrane and Getz

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    Default Re: Stan Getz vs John Coltrane

    Quote Originally Posted by Lambros View Post
    the influence Dolphy had on him
    there's a cat who doesn't get the credit he deserves. add in there the fantastic work he did with Mingus, and yet his best recordings may be his own. Out to Lunch never grows old.

    I can't think of any musician who incorporated more influences (Davis, Monk, George Russell, Ra/Gilmore, Dolphy, Coleman, even Pharoah & Alice) and yet made it all distinctly his personal music.

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