Sax on the Web Forum banner

How to tell a C-Melody from a Tenor (vintage sax buying on ebay)?

13K views 31 replies 19 participants last post by  jhammons01 
#1 ·
Hi -

any tips on how to tell by looking at ebay photos, how to tell the difference between a c-melody (which has a curved neck like a tenor) vs a tenor? I recently bought a c-melody which I'd thought was a tenor, the seller didn't know anything about saxes... it's a good c-melody so that's fine, but looking for a vintage silver tenor; how to tell based on the photo alone, if that's what it is? thx....
 
#3 ·
After looking at them for a while you start to see the difference in the bell to body lengths and cal tell them.
 
#6 ·
I can usually tell as others have stated from the slenderishnish of the bore and bell. Also, if owner can take a pic of serial number area, they usually are stamped with a "C" although not all are.
 
#10 ·
hey thanks, great tips....slender bell, placement of the f#, length of bore, good to know. there's a lot of tenors/c-melody horns on ebay and it's tough to tell them apart at first glance since the neck is similar on both.

for what it's worth the tone and sound of my 1920s-era buescher c-melody is a real treat, it's got a nice low tone and quiet, as designed. much less bright than my yas-62, though not too muted; it's got a 'deeper voice', and a lot of fun to play; I'd recommend getting one, they're usually inexpensive, c-melody bueschers on ebay, if you can find one in decent shape...i lucked out, the one i bought for less than 200 played w/o any padwork needed; just need to adjust the octave key
 
#13 ·
I know that with Bueschers, the alternate F# leads up the horn next to the F tone hole on tenors, and on C-mels, it flips a rod leading to the alternate F# tone hole on the back of the body.
Beyond that, check the bell height in relation to the LH pnky cluster and the Bb cage height in relation to the RH1 touch. Whichever brand(s) you're interested in, just figure out what those should look like and go with that.
 
#16 ·
I know that with Bueschers, the alternate F# leads up the horn next to the F tone hole on tenors, and on C-mels, it flips a rod leading to the alternate F# tone hole on the back of the body.
Just to clarify this, on a Bb Buescher Tenor, the F# tonehole is large and on the back of the body above the thumb hook with a somewhat complex key and rod assembly to open it with. On a C-Mel it's a smaller tonehole placed next to the F tone hole using a straight key to open it with, same as a Buescher alto. I think you had it right, just looked confusing.
 
#18 ·
Ok, appears to be a change in construction over the years. I was staring at my Big B tenor (with the wrap-around F#). You're right about the spoon F# on the TT tenor -- at least as far as I can tell from Saxpics. Mea culpa. :blackeye:

However, here's my Series IV C-melody with it's spoon F#, hence my confusion. Guess I'm not the only one making assumptions.

Musical instrument Reed instrument Musical instrument accessory Wind instrument Woodwind instrument
:tongue2:
 
#19 ·
I realize that I'm resurrecting a dead thread, but I stumbled across this while looking for something totally different today.

In any event, I thought I'd share this resource page on how to tell a C mel from a Bb tenor. I wrote it for my website a few months ago. It shows photos of all the major brands, and compares the tenors and C mels side by side. It could be helpful, and might prevent you mistakenly buying the wrong type of horn from clueless buyer.
 
#20 ·
I remember this thread.
Since seeing maddenma's horn, now unless I see a dead giveaway I default to looking at the top of the body around the palm key tone holes.
Tenors have some space between the neck receiver and the palm F tone hole. C-mels are scrunched up in that area and the palm F chimney is almost on the neck receiver.
Pictures of known horns are on saxpics.com for comparisons.

This is the only thing I personally can spot and have found consistently reliable. At least among the American horns - of course, somewhere there lurks a French-made horn that defies this I'm sure.
 
#21 ·
This was discussed extensively by the author of this blog. I always have found it very useful. She has a very interesting website.
http://bassic-sax.info/blog/?p=44377
Hope this helps.
 
#22 ·
Oops sorry Helen. Didn't see your post #19 just now! Just a proof that at least some of us remembered your excellent and very useful post! It was very accurate. At least on the 2 C melody horns I have ( both 1923 vintage Conn and Buescher). Thanks for an excellent article!
 
#23 ·
Years ago I had the happy accident of putting in the winning eBay bid on a late Buescher C melody (1930) because that baby-spoon F# trill key had me convinced it was a tenor. Still the best damn C I've ever played, and the prettiest too. Here we are doing our Frank Trumbauer re-enactment (he was a pilot and later left music for aviation).
Musical instrument Plant Reed instrument Wind instrument Musician
 
#26 ·
Wait-Wait-Wait !!!! With due respect, your vid is kinda misleading.

You just are saying that C-Mels have the trill F# key on the back of the tube, and an Eb Fork key on the left side of the tube.

That may be true...but TONS of Tenors and Altos also have F# Trill keys and Eb Fork keys located in the exact same spots !!!! (And many...do not).

Below are a Buescher TrueTone Alto, a Weltklang Tenor, a Conn 10M, a Conn Tranny, and a King Cleveland Alto. ALL w/ Fork Eb keys, and 4 of 'em have the backdoor F# trill keycup location....and off top of my head - 6M's, Chus, as well as some older Holton Tenors have backdoor F# keys in combo with Eb Fork keys, too...

So that's not a good barometer to determine a C-Mel.
 

Attachments

#27 ·
Buescher TrueTone Alto, a Weltklang Tenor, a Conn 10M, a Conn Tranny, and a King Cleveland Alto.
Let's have a bit of fun shall we?

I can only wish that the next ~20 viewers of my video use my info to buy one of those 5 horns for the $100-$300 that C-Mels bring on Fleabay......Since I feel so badly about that video being incomplete, I'll gladly refund your $100-$300 for 'any' of those horns you bought off of Fleabay under the guise that they were C-Mels, with the caveat that I get the offending Horn.

Back to being nice and friendly....None of those horns would find their way to Fleabay as....almost every vintage horn gets evaluated "My Technician friend looked it over" and when the owner finds out that it is a ~$400 horn on a 'good' day and will take between $500-$1200 to restore (using a reputable technician) THAT is when you see the horn show up of Fleabay with the "may need a pad or two" and "Estate Sale Find" or "My Uncles old Sax" somewhere in the descriptor
 
#29 ·
Let's have a bit of fun shall we? .....
Back to being nice and friendly....None of those horns would find their way to Fleabay as....almost every vintage horn gets evaluated "My Technician friend looked it over" and when the owner finds out that it is a ~$400 horn on a 'good' day and will take between $500-$1200 to restore (using a reputable technician) THAT is when you see the horn show up of Fleabay with the "may need a pad or two" and "Estate Sale Find" or "My Uncles old Sax" somewhere in the descriptor
I don't disagree with any of that. C-Mels are worthless for a reason.

I simply stated that your telltale signs for determining whether a horn is a C-Mel....aren't going to be the determining factor in whether a horn is a C-Mel.

So, someone could see a nice old Conn or PanAm splitbell Tenor or Alto on auction....notice it has both the Eb Fork and backdoor F#....and come to the conclusion that it must be a C-Mel (based upon your parameters).

And that'd be in error.

No offense intended....just pointing this out.

(In regards to your Conn example...the 'money shot' is much, much simpler IMHO: the neck tube shape is the dead giveaway...not the keys on the body tube).
 
#28 ·
Typical Ad

"Description:C.G.Conn, Ltd. Elkhart Silvertone Saxophone

Manufacturer/Markings:C.G.Conn

Pattern/Color: Silvertone

Dimensions: Approximately 27" long including neck piece.

Condition: Has tarnish/oxidation, debris, soiling, smudges, residues, scuffs and scrapes."

Then, they go on to add a few pics....
Musical instrument accessory Rectangle Musical instrument Box Electronic instrument
Okay, we have what looks to be a New Wonder II
Bicycle part Nickel Automotive exhaust Tool Metal
Oh nice, tuner neck that the NWII had
Musical instrument Automotive exhaust Bicycle part Font Nickel
Okay, it has a body

Here comes the money shot....
Musical instrument Brass instrument Wind instrument Music Automotive exhaust


and confirmation
Motor vehicle Automotive tire Gas Font Auto part


Now we have a CG Conn NWII confirmed and this one is bidding at $66 and closes on Tuesday......that one will make it to ~$250 by then.....I'll check back on Tuesday to see how close I came to estimating the price.
 
#30 ·
When all else fails, measure the body as an alto is about 22", a C about 24-26" and a tenor about 28+". The confusion of ebay sellers tends to call most a tenor because of the curved neck and the straight neck Conns get called altos. Some like the King C mels look a lot like a tenor due to the fatter bell.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top