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How low can you go?

21K views 63 replies 20 participants last post by  milandro 
#1 Ā·
I have been meaning to ask the SOTW community for a while to reflect on the why in the last few years there has been an incredible proliferation of very low sounding instruments some of which have surpassed the threshold of the audible frequencies.

This phenomenon is hardly limited to the world of saxophones and yes, we had contrabass saxophones and clarinets for a very long time but hyperbass flutes? Octobass stringed instruments?

Why is this? Yes, the saxophone family has also gone the other way and Benedikt Eppelsheim (who is responsible for a few low instruments too: two tubaxes, a contrabass, a bass and both a contrabass clarinet and a contra-bassoon ) added a piccolo saxophone or soprillo to the range of the saxophones.

But there are many other examples of incredibly low instruments...........feel free to add to the collection :)






 
#35 Ā·
Well I have found a video of the full sized J'Elle Stainer Subcontrabass Saxophone being played by Attilio Berni, he also plays the soprillo in this video but nevermind that, as its about the subcontrabass. Thought it would be nice to share this for more people to see.

Hopefully this makes up for my not-so-smart reply to this thread from earlier.
 
#36 Ā·
Apparently not very extreme, but I like Sidney Bechet playing the (bass?) sarrusophone on "Mandy, make up your mind" with the Clarence Williams Blue 5. Sidney himself actually wasn't that delighted at all.

From Wikipedia:
"A very unusual example of the sarrusophone in jazz is on the 1924 recording by the Clarence Williams Blue 5 of "Mandy, Make Up Your Mind," with the sarrusophone played by the jazz soprano saxophone and clarinet virtuoso Sidney Bechet. One can conjecture that the sarrusophone played was most likely a contrabass with a single reed mouthpiece, as Bechet was not a trained double reed player. Bechet later denied having ever played the sarrusophone. According to the biography by Chilton, Sidney "pulled a face" when asked about the solo on "Mandy", though he did not deny playing it."

Here it is:
The solo starts @ 1'48

Wrt. the posted extreme instrument performances I liked that Jab Jab soprillo/contrabass sax duet best (the other performances no so much, ugh..).
 
#37 Ā·
so, a periodical survey of the internet brings me to get acquainted ( and quaint is here the operative word) with some weird instruments.

He's to you the TROMBOON ( a bassoon trombone cross)

Ideal for those of you who own a trombone and a bassoon.





 
#41 Ā·
Yes it seems like many of these are extreme just for the sake of being extreme. A Sousaphone or an electric bass provide a pleasing bass sound. Why go to such extremes for a less than pleasant ( less than musical) sound.

That bassoon/trombone hybrid sounds like an athsmatic do my braying.
 
#42 Ā·
Yes it seems like many of these are extreme just for the sake of being extreme. A Sousaphone or an electric bass provide a pleasing bass sound. Why go to such extremes for a less than pleasant ( less than musical) sound.

That bassoon/trombone hybrid sounds like an athsmatic do my braying.
Indeed, some of these were not even real instruments but hey, here we are



this one plays





this one is much lower





 
#45 Ā·
Few instruments sound good at sub-bass ranges - possibly the organ and piano are exceptions. Brass and woodwinds of that low range are just too farty when their lowest notes are played.

This is why I don't have a beautiful LeBlanc paperclip contrabass clarinet.

This video, however, is fun:

 
#46 Ā·
The disadvantage of the lowest wind instruments is, it is difficult to determine the pich of the lowest notes. The tubax does not have this problem because it is so rich in higher harmonics due to its small bore. 1920s contrabass saxes were pretty murky below low D. The new subcontrabass saxes have the same problem, but even more so. If these instruments are doubled an octave higher (and in tune!) on another instrument, their low notes become more useful. However, that means you need a bass saxophone player, too.

The Eppelsheim contra has a slightly smaller bore than the 1920s contrabasses, and much better intonation. It really sounds like a saxophone, unlike the Tubax (which is a very good instrument,) and for me, the Eppelsheim contra is the lowest saxophone that sounds good alone. Check out this clip:

 
#47 Ā·
This thread, which I started some time ago, was sparked by the fact that I saw an increase on extremely low NEW instruments, I discovered them not only among saxophones ( go back by the way and see what still works among the many published videos) but among any category of instruments.

Why that is , maybe can be analyzed by social scientists. One thing is certainly " Because we can!"

Another is to create attention but as you may have noted there is also a proliferation of ensembles and of composers especially targeted to this range.

Of course it starts in the tradition but there are many contemporary examples.

 
#53 Ā·
Well, in the eight years since I last commented, I can now include a few years diversion into the world of recorders, and I can honestly say that when the largest are playing in an ensemble - there is often only the mildest of hints that they are present when playing the WRONG notes...
I stand by failing to see the use of an instrument when it can't make a real musical contribution, that isn't either inaudible or painful.
Not that anyone listens to what I say, bit like the inaudible instruments really, heheh...:rolleyes:
 
#55 Ā·
I had not read this thread in a while. The bassoon/contrabassoon ensemble in Milandro's post #48 sounds good. Bassoons "define" the pitch of very low notes very well because of their narrow bore, yet they still sound dark due to their small and long tone holes. That's probably why they have remained popular for hundreds of years.

The disadvantage of the bassoon family is that it is not very loud. They suffer in our (loud) modern environment to the extent that in an effort to amplify their sound sufficiently, there is often a lot of key noise.

I'll agree that some of the new efforts at constructing ultra-low instruments including saxophones has deteriorated to "low for the sake of being low," and some of the new low saxes sound pretty bad. However, there are ultra low saxes that sound good over a range of 2 - 3 octaves and they produce a pleasant sound unlike anything ever heard before. Check this out - old music, new horn:
 
#56 Ā·
very beautiful! and great playing , of course some " instruments" very large (as the very small) have a visual appeal but that is pretty much it, some are made for their potential in sound effects ( obviously we now have synthesizers ) and some others are just showing off complication.

the human voice doesn't escape this either

 
#57 Ā· (Edited)
There are a few players, like Scott Robinson, who are very musical on instruments that most people avoid. Instead of avoiding the weaknesses of some odd horns, Scott confronts those weaknesses and turns them to his advantage. Scott told me that there are some bad notes on his ancient contrabass sax, but he makes them sound good in a unique way.
While I prefer my Eppelsheim contrabass sax because of its good intonation and even-sounding timbre, Scott employs the murky lowest notes of his contra to good effect, and he can split the sound of other (bad?) notes in a way remeniscent of Adrian Rollini using multiphonics on his bass sax in the 1920s. Check out Scott here on "Plumbing the Depths."
 
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