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You know you are a C-Melody player when....

43K views 230 replies 39 participants last post by  Sax Repair Crew 
#1 ·
A pad falls out of your saxophone while you are playing it. :bluewink:
 
#50 ·
I have sold on this board before and lurked a little, but this is the first time I have come accross the C-Mel section!

This thread is very funny!

I bought my C-Mel (1924 Martin) in 2004 (with the case and several mouthpieces,one of which I am sure is the original), started cleaning and restoring it. After repadding it myself, I decided that I was in over my head, and passed it over to a good friend of mine who is a tech, about two years ago. Since he is doing this for me at no cost, he works on it in his sparse spare time. It still is not up and playing, but we are hopeful!

About the case.....I cleaned mine out with woollite upolstry cleaner, a damp sponge, and and a vacuum cleaner when it dried, and got most of the "antique" smell out! The purple interior did fade and bleed a little, but I can say it is much cleaner now. Also learned not to go digging aroung with bare fingers in the crevices of the case.....I found an old rusted razor blade the hard way! Ouch!! Next time I decide to "probe" around in an old case, I will be using a flat blade screwdriver.

Shanda
 
#52 ·
The ability to 'shave' a reed, was an essential part of a sax players skill-set in the old days ! (Yes, I did it too...)

Still have my old reed trimmers/clippers too, actually used one the other day - one of my prized possessions is a cased glass plate, about the size of two credit cards, engraved 'Lyons Band Instrument Co', complete with a sliver of 1920's emery cloth. That was for serious reed scrapers !
 
#55 ·
The ability to 'shave' a reed, was an essential part of a sax players skill-set in the old days ! (Yes, I did it too...)
Yes, I don't know when the first pre-graded reeds hit the market, but it can't have been too long before 1930. Before then you had to make 'em work. Today you might have a few 3s, a few 3 1/2s and a 2 1/2 in a box of 3s...but imagine a box with a 1 1/2, a few 7s, a 2, a 9 3/4, a 0.6, and a couple 12s...
 
#53 ·
I wish I had some of those tools, pretty much all of the reeds I cycle through have a chip in the front now. Hasn't affected playing yet as far as I can tell, or maybe I am just getting used to chipped reeds :O
 
#54 ·
I was lucky to find a C Melody reed trimmer as case candy a few years ago. Works great to trim bass clarinet reeds. When my father played a Buescher C mel in the late 20s, he would use a coin (US quarter), hold it under the tip of the reed and hold a match to the edge of the coin burning off the damaged area. Actually works pretty good but the taste is not to my fancy.
 
#57 ·
When my father played a Buescher C mel in the late 20s, he would use a coin (US quarter), hold it under the tip of the reed and hold a match to the edge of the coin burning off the damaged area. Actually works pretty good but the taste is not to my fancy.
This is my method of "clipping" Fibracells....no propitiatory clipper will touch them.
The absence of the US quarter over here forces me to use a circa 1" radius washer.
 
#61 ·
Probably got a couple of quarters in my old 'travel money' jar, if you'd like to try that Beeflat - although they're a bit too small for bari reeds I suspect !
 
#62 ·
An earlier, jocular comment of yours cmelodysax, which stated that "we veer off C Mels at the slightest excuse", gave me a pang of guilt. The last time I took my C melodys out of their cases was to shew them to you.
Possibly therefore, the definition of a C Mel player is that he keeps them in their cases under the bed.
Could be the reason why immaculate C Mels are so often retrieved from this source.....from under the bed where they have lain since the 1920s. :bluewink:
 
#63 ·
Understand completely, I've spent most of the afternoon playing alto - there is a VERY tenuous link, as I use bass clari reeds on alto, which are the 'modern' equivalent of C-Melody reeds, but it's a poor excuse...

I'll go and have a blast on the C now, you've stirred my guilt as well !
 
#65 ·
Captain Beeflat said:
Possibly therefore, the definition of a C Mel player is that he keeps them in their cases under the bed.
Whereas if he hauls them in gigbags to the occasional gig, he is not a pure C melodist, but merely a doubler. Pure C melodying implies amateur status, altho it's ok to play in church too.
 
#68 ·
Well I just spent $175 on my c-mel raising the palm keys, raising and moving up (further from the bottom) the side keys, putting an extension on the low D keypad and bending the neck slightly up. I think the money was well spent. Would I spend that much on my tenor? Not a chance...
 
#71 ·
Would I spend that much on my tenor? Not a chance...
There is probably some European Council Dictate to forbid such sizeist prejudice. :)

I used to feel the same about C Mels...I can still remember my delight at the dinky size & beautiful workmanship of the silver/gold Buescher TT, all those decades ago, hanging on the wall of MIR in the Birmingham area....I had to have it....& I still have it.
However, the realities set in.
Playing in an amplified Rock/Blues band, for some time I convinced myself that it worked....but it does not .... it simply does not have the cojones or presence....this is the territory of the Bb tenor.
The C tenor would probably work with a Folkie or Hippy band, but I would rather eat worms. As for playing in a church, you cannot be serious.
Attempting to play C tenor at home & Bb tenor on stage confused what remains of my brain cells.
Therefore my C tenors live under the bed.....to be re-discovered after my time, & listed on eBay....and so the cycle is repeated & continued. :cry:
 
#69 ·
D'you know, I've got small hands (have trouble spanning an octave on piano), and I've never really found any of the ergo's on 20's C-Mels to be a stretch or a problem. A lot of the 'C' advertising, at the time, showed young lads as potential players - I wonder if the sax was built with small hands in mind ? Not necessarily exclusively for kids, but certainly not needing a big reach.
 
#77 ·
My three C Melody cases remain stacked against the wall in my room, not under the bed. And my non-silverplate is usually out on the stand ready to play. They are the only horns I take to gigs, in an amplified rock band. That means I am a C-Melody player... of amateur status of course.

I disagree that they lack the cojones to play in a rock band. They can play the right notes and sound good... and thats good enough in my humble opinion. Its refreshing to other horn players hear a different timbre than the tenor tone they know so well. It generates questions and complements after the gig that a tenor player might not normally get, like "Why does your saxophone sound like that?" "What kind of horn is that?" "Why does it sound like a tenor but have an alto neck?" Etc.

I would argue that C-Tenors have a different type of cojones... but of course you know I will always argue this point blatantly, endlessly, and in a most Conn-biased fashion :bluewink:
 
#80 ·
They are the only horns I take to gigs, in an amplified rock band. That means I am a C-Melody player... of amateur status of course.

I disagree that they lack the cojones to play in a rock band.

I would argue that C-Tenors have a different type of cojones... but of course you know I will always argue this point blatantly, endlessly, and in a most Conn-biased fashion :bluewink:
Put simply..the word is "experience".
I admire your enthusiasm and your loyalty to your first horn.
You are very young & have been playing saxophone for a relatively short period.
We have seen the videos of your schoolboy "rock" band.
It comes as no surprise that you disagree that the Bb tenor is the only option...I thought the same about substituting the C Melody...but I was wrong.
Also, I have no bias against the Conn...they made superb tenor, altos and baritones...shame therefore that their C Melody was such a wimp.
As Rennie says, "The C-Melody has a gentle voice" ...especially the Conn; any C Mel therefore has as much place in a real Blues/Rock band as a basoon or mandolin.
I have three C Melodies...I love them; therefore I would not embarrass them or tarnish their image by playing one in an unsuitable environment.
 
#79 ·
I don't play in a rock and roll band (yet - I will take offers) and play mostly at home for my personal satisfaction, so the C-melody is fine.

If my band is overpowering the sax, I just turn the volume down on the iPad that is playing the playalong MP3s...

I find it great to play Bossa Nova and other Brazilian rithyms like samba and chorinho.

And by now I have many of you rolling your eyes.
:mrgreen:

Anyway, I also play the other horns, hoping that in the future I will play in different bands and knowing that the C-mel might not always be the best weapon.
 
#81 ·
Hey, Captain Beefy! What changed your mind so totally against the C mel in a rock environment? Recordings of yourself? Of others? Feedback re the sound? Your own ears listening live (via a monitor, presumably?)? I'm interested because a while back someone (i think it was you yourself, possibly) posted a clip of some pro (Canadian?) player the C mel and I thought the sound there had plenty of guts. He was using a Bb tenor mp if i remember rightly.
 
#82 ·
I probably had, to some degree, the mindset of Metal Danny....I had made up my mind & refused to be confused by the facts.

Of course a C Mel will fit in most situations....but even with the most tenoresque C Mel & the hairiest of open tenor mouthpieces, it lacks the outright balls & presence of a Bb tenor.
Initially, many years ago, I used the C Mel in a rock environment because guitar keys are so much easier...but, as you well know, the key does not really matter if one can play the instrument.
Your assumption with regard to hearing a recording was correct....One playing C Mel & the second playing tenor.....no argument, the Bb won hands down.
Yes, I was wrong...& reluctant to admit this even to myself.
Also, the band gained another manic guitarist, complete with 100 watt Marshall & Tube Screamer...time to put the C Mel into it's case & drag out the tenor....sigh.
I really like my dinky little C Mels....I only wish that I had the opportunity to play them somewhere.
 
#85 ·
Beeflat, I was semi-jesting, as you know... However, i never invite drummers to the house WITH their kit - I can provide drumsticks and an assortment of telephone directories and cushions :bluewink: Even have a small assortment of lap-held electronic drum pad thingys, which I will happily connect to a 15w practise amp :mrgreen:

Amazingly, a jazz drummer can turn up with just a high-hat and snare, plus brushes, and be perfectly happy at minimal volume - actually blending in - whereas rock drummers even want to amplify their noise generators !

How about sitting in with that trad band that you went out on the boat with, to Lundy ? Sax is great in a trad band, never really considered de rigeur, but it's fun to compete for musical territory against trombone and clarinet, or harmonise with the trumpet - some trad bands love a sax, others hate them, unless it's a clari player double.

Seriously thinking that if I ever want to (gently) gig again, I'm going to have to form an acoustic'ish jazzy/funky/bluesy/gently-rockin' bunch of old timers - so we can all have an excuse for playing sitting down. Just enough amplification to be heard above the ambient noise - max 30w - rock drummers/bassists need not apply. Bodhran players need NOT apply either...:tsk:

So (as we have somewhat diversified) " You know you are a C-Melody player when.... you have to start looking for quieter musicians to play with..."

One of the nicest backing tracks I have is an acoustic guitar version of Hotel California, very relaxing to play against ! Happy to email a copy to anyone, can change the key if required :bluewink:
 
#86 ·
An alto or C-mel is a great double in a 3pc trad front line. You can give that pop feel to Tin Pan Alley tunes, or add a Bix feel back into tunes from his canon (something most such bands have lost).
 
#87 ·
Paul and cmelodysax.
Good constructive solutions...to be taken seriously. Excellent resolutions both.
Good point about the trad bands...I have only ever played harp with them....including the trip on the river. It works very well, through the vocal mic, with trad Blues, & always surprises seasoned musicians who regard it as a child's toy.
Next time I shall take a C Mel to back up the harp....that may surprise them even more.
PS.
Alan. I would love the backing tracks to Hotel California....preferably in the Eagles' original key. I believe it was in D but I will check.
 
#88 ·
I do like C horns very much, since before I played sax I was set on getting one. I doubt that any tenor or more experience could change my loyalties to my C-Saxes, but I do understand your point. I do not doubt that the tenor will outpace the C in a test of volume and presence... but in this age of microphones I have the sound guy turn my mic up more.

What the C lacks in power and presence, I attempt to make up for by technique and a "different" tone then the masses are used to. I do not find these to be viable reasons to exclude these horns from rock and blues... and I will more than likely stay set in my stubborn ways and play C-Melodies in ridiculous genres of Ska, Metal, Reggae, Rock, and Blues, and Funk until my fingers crumble away.

To each their own... and to own their each, Danny. Metal. C.
 
#89 ·
Danny - it's not a case of whether a horn is 'viable' in any circumstances. It's a whole combination of things, but the main one (from my own perspective) is that, having played soprano thro' baritone over decades, in each style of music, (at least) one particular saxophone is probably best suited to allow me to perform to the best of my ability in that style/genre - regardless of which saxophone I'm "expected" to play...

Are you saying that (as long as the sound man cranks you up enough, and you have decent foldback/monitoring) it'd be a fulfilling and creative experience to - e.g. - play acoustic guitar in a heavy metal band ? No, you'd get frustrated by the futility of it all... Brilliant tho' your enthusiasm is, am I right in assuming that you've only really played C's on gigs ? Try tenor and/or alto in the same situations, then you'll get some idea of what Beeflat's getting at. It's even more complicated than just different horns, some mouthpieces sound great at home, but on a gig they just don't cut it. (no pun intended, but I'm beginning to have an inkling about where that phrase comes from...)

I'm as loyal as hell to C Saxophones, but stick me in a loud funk environment, and out comes the alto with as edgy a 'piece as I can find in the case - whereas in an R'n B band, gutsy tenor often fits in better. Still no hard and fast rules, Sanborn played alto in just about every style of music, Brecker did the same with tenor, both to devastating effect - those particular horns fulfilled their needs. So if you're happy with C's for everything you do, great ! But one day, when you've had experience of a few of the other sized saxophones, and used them in anger, you may just see the light...:idea1:

Anyway, it's after 2 a.m. here, so I'll just ZZZZzzz.zzz.......... off
 
#90 ·
Some day some child genius will pull out a descant recorder at a rock gig and blow everyone's mind.

Possibly.

I am half serious. There was an amazing kid playing recorder on Young Musician last night. Amazing. I mean, Charles Mingus mocked Eric Dolphy when he first got his bass clarinet out on a gig. etc

Having said that, i'm as conventional as hell myself. Tenor for straight ahead jazz, alto or soprano for funk, that's me. Flute for latin. Clarinet for trad or a bit of "experimental" honking and squeaking or folkiness. :)
 
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