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Conn New Wonder vs. New Wonder II 'Chu Berry'

35K views 53 replies 17 participants last post by  Farooque Ahmed 
#1 ·
The differences in the LH Pinkey tables, although the nail file is harder to slip off of after long playing when spit starts to come out... it is a double edged sword. It is also harder to slip onto the spatula keys...

Handle Fixture Door Wood Latch
............... Automotive lighting Wood Font Auto part Metal


1920 New Wonder- Smooth G# .... 1926 NW II "Chu" - Nail file G#
 
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#2 ·
The RH Thumb hook

Bigger RH Thumb hook on the "Chu," increased comfort.

Automotive lighting Household hardware Gas Auto part Nickel
............. Musical instrument Brass instrument Wind instrument Glass Metal


1920 New Wonder ......................1926 NW II "Chu"
 
#3 ·
The Palm Keys and Octave Button

Way more robust design on the palm keys... frees up soldered stops on the body because the stop is built onto the key... smoother body section on the "Chu", palm keys larger and higher up.

Musical instrument Reed instrument Wind instrument Bicycle part Automotive exhaust
........... Hood Automotive lighting Vehicle Automotive exhaust Motor vehicle


1920 New Wonder....................1926 NW II "Chu"

Also: No more teardrop octave key, but a better styled key. Harder to slip off of when spit comes out, which happens after a long time of playing the New Wonder.
 
#4 ·
The Pearls

Pearl touches are dished on the Chu, flat on the New Wonder. Hard to slip off on the Chu...

Gas Wood Metal Auto part Musical instrument
............ Automotive lighting Amber Gas Wood Auto part


1920 New Wonder...................1926 NW II "Chu"
 
#10 ·
Re: The Pearls

Pearl touches are dished on the Chu, flat on the New Wonder. Hard to slip off on the Chu...

View attachment 30308 ............ View attachment 30309

1920 New Wonder...................1926 NW II "Chu"
That is one of the main striking differences in feel between the New Wonder I
and later Conns (in my case a 10M) like the Chu. On the NW I it feels more like
your fingers are on top of the pearls making the horn feel more robust in a way.
Never had issues with fingers slipping off. Neither with the non-G# spatula.
 
#5 ·
Overall, the "Chu" feels faster, free-er blowing, and more robust than the New Wonder. Tones are however, unique, I can't comment on which is better.
 
#7 ·
Yes I would agree, the "Chu" feels more centered to me, lacking some of the expression I can get on my Wonder or New Wonder... but it is very fast I'll give it that. I'm gonna get a recording, same piece, and mpc. of my Wonder, NW, and NW II in immediate succession to help bring to light some of the subtle tonal differences, although for some reason the Chu feels much further apart than the Wonder and New Wonder do in its sound and feel. It is definitely a different beast....
 
#8 ·
"Fast" - Have you disassembled, lubed, and rebuilt your other two horns? Do all the keys spin freely on the long rods?
 
#9 ·
Only my 1919 Wonder was disassembled and overhauled with new key oil by me. The keys spun very freely on it when I assembled the stacks on the rods. My 1920 NW hasn't seen an overhaul since one that must have happened before I owned it, because it came to me in playable condition.
 
#11 ·
Ahh... for me sometimes when I have been playing constantly for more than an hour condensation/spit will start to make an appearance out of the palm key tone holes. Sometimes it gets me in the back making the octave key slippery. Sometimes it gets on the G# (!?!) and sometimes it goes right down the upper stack. If I don't have a moment to wipe off the sax in the middle of the song it can cause slipping issues, mostly on that small teardrop octave key. Its not a huge issue, but it definitely was addressed by Conn.
 
#13 ·
@ Fader- Altos? C-Mels? Tenors? Might be useful to know what horns your New Wonders are!

I have been meaning to get a Bb Conn Tenor, Wonder, New Wonder, or "Chu" but preferably not the Chu for some time now. Not extremely soon, but relatively soon :bluewink:
 
#17 ·
I have gotten a little confused lately since I relooked at the comparison pics in this thread
and revisited the Saxpics website again regarding the Conn New Wonder section.
It never caught my eye but now I noticed that on Saxpics site the 'Chu' type series start at 143xxx.
My New Wonder tenor has a 144xxx serial. I never realised this but it has most of the 'Chu' features
shown in the pics in this thread except for the nail file G# key and the dished pearls.
I have always assumed it was a late NW I type and I still think it is. Could my horn possibly
be a sort of transitional between the NW I and the II Chu?

Do you have or know other examples of this?
 
#18 ·
Conns can be a mismatch of all parts. I have a C melody with a 1923 serial number that is a Chu all the way. Probably had the body already stamped. I have seen some sopranos that are series one with high serial numbers too.
To add some more confusion to this thread, mix in the tranny altos (both types), 6M, 26M and 28M.
Right now I have a NW I, NW II, tranny and 6M. Which is best?....all of them, just different.
 
#19 ·
Thanks. So mine is probably one of those mixed up ones too,
I never played a 'real' Chu or a Tranny (wish I could) and I bet there are
a lot of better sounding Conns out there but my NW just kills. I am fighting the
LH pinky's lately though. Never gave me any trouble but now they do. Maybe it's me (are my hands growing?)
I am thinking of attaching some sort of extension to them as they seem to be
getting too small and my pinky slips of or even gets stuck between them.
 
#20 ·
I am lucky to have a model of each that seems to be "fully" that model and not some mismatch of transitioning parts... people always talk about the "transitional" Conn that was between the "Chu" and the M-Series, but in truth there was a transitional period for every model change. I have seen them come across on ebay... "wonder" series that have some of the "new wonder" features, "new wonders" with "wonder" or "NWII-Chu" features. It seemed that Conn did not put to waste any spare parts laying around and hence the unique mutant horns that can be found such as yours Jazznbluezzzz. I think that is actually pretty cool that you have a unique horn like that...

-Danny
 
#21 ·
I have a 1924 fully restored New Wonder .... I assume this is what is was like new. It plays better than anything I've ever encountered, including a new Keilwerth, and sounds deep and rich but can really scream when pushed. Amazing instrument!!! My only objection is that it doesn't look old. :dontknow:


Turtle
 
#22 ·
I have a 1924 fully restored New Wonder .... I assume this is what is was like new. It plays better than anything I've ever encountered, including a new Keilwerth, and sounds deep and rich but can really scream when pushed. Amazing instrument!!! My only objection is that it doesn't look old. :dontknow:

Turtle
I'm glad to hear this. I have my grandfathers 1924 tenor NW. I played it some as a kid nearly 35 years ago. It has sat since then (at various relatives houses). It has now been reunited with me, need a lot of TLC, but I am hoping to have it restored. Do you have any recordings of one of these? I'm looking for something that will make me say "wow, my instrument can do that????". Seems I can still read a little music but clearly need lots and lots of practice, re-learning that which was forgotten, and hopefully taking it much further.

-Dan
 
#29 ·
Speaking of evolution of design, here is my mod of the bis key gap. Glasses Kitchen utensil Automotive lighting Eyewear Tableware


not pretty but works very well, so far.

good old 2-part epoxy and some skill with it.

Its a Pan Am from the late 20's as far as I can tell- no LH posts, smooth LH pinky, Eb trill, etc. superb sound. Using with Marantz HR mouthpiece.

also in the "not pretty but really works" category...try it, you'll never go back!

Chair Bicycle part Musical instrument Automotive tire Gas
 
#33 ·
re flat v. curved or dished pearls, again I don't think its a hands down yes/no.

The idea is that if you have moisture on your fingers, the dish will help you stay put. That's probably true if your fingers are in some picture perfect placement, dead center of the pearl

What I found is that maximum contact is what you want. So in fact, the flat pearl is more likely to provide that. "How?" you ask, sitting on the edge of your seat, in eager breathless anticipation of the coming englightenment?

Well, if you have your fat little fingers are sitting off the the side ever so slightly, you now have the edge of the dish acting as a kind of ridge from which you can slide or move. On the flat version, you simply have contact, no matter where you are. That's what I felt and though there is an initial kind of good feeling from the dish, it can actually serve the purpose better in a flat. Moving around often put me "on the edge" which wasn't as nice as without the dish edge.

They say a perfectly smooth tire would do better on sheer ice than a snow tire. When its ice, there is nothing to grab or grip so its just friction youre looking for. You get more of that with maximum surface area in play. Seems to be relevant up here in the NE these days. but yes its hypothetical, as its never just ice.

There, now you have the wisdom you came to SOTW for.
 
#35 ·
I think its like this: moving it will make something better (left arm crunch?) and something else worse (you have to push the horn forward more). The net is likely to be a negative. Im not entirely sure, but that was my experience.

Having the two rings is a good idea. what the hell, nice to be able to try both for an extended period. Except that of course the extra material will create neophasic interloping inverse sonic effect, which will degrade your sound. (Or is it improve your sound?)

Id guess they tried all of that in the design phase, even tho it was 24 BC when they did it. People were people, even back then.
 
#38 ·
Yes, me too. But, I still get the crunch. Right now, I'm mostly playing the Yamaha (awesome comfort), and only picking up the Conn one day a week. I'm wondering if there isn't a way to hang the horn off something else (a strap around the tube?), to test out this new ring placement, before actually doing it. The guy who did the restoration is strongly advising me to leave it alone ... he likes the way the restoration came out. I can't blame him, but he's not the one playing it.

I was also considering a new RH thumb rest, in a better spot ... The rest of the horn, I think, is fairly comfortable. I don't mind the spread of the keys, or the pinky table (which is pretty good for a very old horn).

Btw, I agree on the pearls .... the flat ones on my NWI are nice. I like them just as well as the curverd ones my Yamaha.

Turtle
 
#40 ·
Talking of pearls and keywork, I consider the "nail-file" G# plate a retrograde step......impossible to slide the finger.
I fit an adapted Runyon palm key riser to both NW1...to stop my finger sliding off, & also to the NW 11 to make the G# key plate less "sticky".
 
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