Yanagisawa Soprano History and Identification - Page 6

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  1. #101
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    Default Re: Yanagisawa Soprano History and Identification

    Quote Originally Posted by twocircles View Post
    I last posted on this thread almost two years ago. There had only been a few posts for a while, so I thought I was laying this thread to rest.

    Thanks, Pete, for taking up the torch and becoming the resident expert. I also have since figured out how to subscribe to threads and am now subscribed. At least, I will know when there is further interest.

    I think we should start cataloging curvies. I think they will fit nicely into the framework that has been started here.

    I think cataloging curvies would be an interesting undertaking as well. My daughter has a beautiful SC800, and I have read conflicting info regarding the existence of a SC880. Pete's linked Russian catalog doesn't show one, only the SC800. Do they exist?

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    Forum Contributor 2011 Pete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yanagisawa Soprano History and Identification

    You're welcome.

    * My Yani pages are currently at http://thesax.info/makesandmodelslis...ese/yanagisawa. Yes, I'm eventually going to fix the layout.
    * My Yani pictures are at http://thesax.info/piwigo/index.php?...ry/168#content. I also keep re-organizing that.
    * My serial number research is at http://woodwindforum.com/forum/index...-numbers.24354

    There are no 50/500 or 88/880 curved sopranos. The SC-800 was the first curvy, so you're not going to find, say, an SC-3. That would be cool, though.

    One difference between the 800 and 880 is the kind of brass used; i.e. French (thick) vs Japanese (thin). The 800 and 880 supposedly have a bit of a difference in tonehole placement because of this. As far as I can tell, Yani has continued to do this with the 90x vs the 99x, but I no longer see this advertised. Well, the WO1 is called "light" and the WO10 is called "heavy" ...

    I've been working on other projects for quite awhile, now, so I haven't been by. However, I do try to show up when someone posts here.
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  4. #103
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    Default Re: Yanagisawa Soprano History and Identification

    I thought that the difference between French Brass and Japanese Brass was in the composition, not the thickness.
    Life is just a bowl... some have cherries in it, some don’t. Those who have the cherries aren’t likely to share them though.

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    Default Re: Yanagisawa Soprano History and Identification

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    One difference between the 800 and 880 is the kind of brass used; i.e. French (thick) vs Japanese (thin). The 800 and 880 supposedly have a bit of a difference in tonehole placement because of this. As far as I can tell, Yani has continued to do this with the 90x vs the 99x, but I no longer see this advertised. Well, the WO1 is called "light" and the WO10 is called "heavy" ...
    I think that the "Light" and "Heavy" designations refer primarily (or exclusively?) to the choice of single-post vs. ribbed construction. However, Dave Kessler has reported that his Yany contacts indicated that the WO1 and the WO10 use different brass -- or at least differently sourced brass -- although there's no word on whether one variant is of a heavier gauge, or whether one is internally designated as "Japanese" and the other "French."

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    Default Re: Yanagisawa Soprano History and Identification

    Geez Pete...no good deed goes unpunished.

    It seems this is still a topic of interest, even if it goes through bouts without questions.

    There is a profound difference between most saxes and clarinets between models...which I find so interesting about Yannies: how little they seem to change model to model...though I have no faimilairty with the alloy or bronze differences. Both of my sopranos play and feel the same, even 12 years apart...

  7. #106
    Forum Contributor 2011 Pete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yanagisawa Soprano History and Identification

    Quote Originally Posted by milandro View Post
    I thought that the difference between French Brass and Japanese Brass was in the composition, not the thickness.
    I'll defer to you, based on the primary fact that I'm too lazy to look it up . However, if it's just the brass composition, one would assume that the toneholes didn't need to be moved and I'm pretty sure I've read that about the 800 vs the 880, at least. I do appreciate Lost Conn's comment regarding what Dave Kessler said about the new Yanis, though. Good on ya!

    As far as the light vs. heavy designations on the WO horns, I've seen that primarily on Japanese websites. Hey, the Conn-Selmer website still has the 90x and 99x altos and tenors listed, so light/heavy might not have made it to the US yet. IMO, if I was Yanagisawa, I'd use "light" and "heavy" to indicate the brass composition and talk up the plate construction as two different things. More selling points, you know .

    FWIW, minstein, I don't have a horse in this race. I no longer play -- too many medical problems, but I do have a Yamaha WX5 that keeps me entertained -- and the only Yani products I've played for any length of time were B6 Vito baris, none of which played very well. That being said, Gandalfe (Jim) said that he'll get me to play a "Silver Sonic" Yani bari if I ever visit the northwest.

    Sopranos (and higher) and baritones (and lower) have always been difficult to quantify because they don't generally have the same features of a alto or tenor in the same model range, so I'm not overly surprised that an SS-880 plays similarly to an SS-901. Hey, don't mess with perfection.

    I've often mentioned that I'm a big fan of Yamaha products, but I watched a video from sax.co.uk (again, too lazy to look up) where one of their folks played a YAS-62 or 62III and a Yani 901 or WO1 side-by-side. You could easily tell the sonic difference between the horns and the Yani was a a lot darker and rounder. The Yani is also a tad bit cheaper than the 62III.


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  8. #107
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    Default Re: Yanagisawa Soprano History and Identification

    there has been much discussion about these matters concerning brass thickness and composition, let alone the whole measuring parabolic bores.

    Some commercial terms like cartridge brass even gave origin to myths such as the Selmer spent-cannon-shell one while they only define brass for a different purpose and with a different composition.

    As for thickness, there are variations but there are limits to the applicability of too great a difference, imposed by the fact that too thin a brass sheet one could push in dents and too thick it won’t bend (think of how much force one needs to roll the top part of the soprano and indeed many sopranos, also Yanagisawa, were not made in one cone but two soldered cones recognizable by a slight bump on the surface of the “ neck”).

    The thing that people make a big deal of the nature of the shell (the thickness and nature of materials and its plating) has been most certainly used by companies to market things in a particular way.

    In the much quoted video by Rampone & Cazzani, Claudio Zolla hits bars of metal with a mallet to demonstrate metal resonance. At some point though he hits raw copper which produces an horrible “ klang” and he himself says that he doesn’t understand how a bar that produces such a horrible “ resonance” produces warm sounds when shaped into a saxophones. In other words he contradicts his own assumption that it is material that makes the sound in an active way.

    Nevertheless it is very useful and helps selling at way higher price that any metal or its difference in thickness any instrument made or plated with any particular metal.
    Life is just a bowl... some have cherries in it, some don’t. Those who have the cherries aren’t likely to share them though.

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    Default Re: Yanagisawa Soprano History and Identification

    Dave Kessler told me that the Wo1 and Wo10 use different brass AND his Yany contacts say the Wo10 is HEAVIER GUAGE than any other Yany models (including Wo20 etc).
    Quote Originally Posted by LostConn View Post
    I think that the "Light" and "Heavy" designations refer primarily (or exclusively?) to the choice of single-post vs. ribbed construction. However, Dave Kessler has reported that his Yany contacts indicated that the WO1 and the WO10 use different brass -- or at least differently sourced brass -- although there's no word on whether one variant is of a heavier gauge, or whether one is internally designated as "Japanese" and the other "French."

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    Default Re: Yanagisawa Soprano History and Identification

    lots of things are told, while a caliper would do wonders in this.
    Life is just a bowl... some have cherries in it, some don’t. Those who have the cherries aren’t likely to share them though.

  11. #110
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    Default Re: Yanagisawa Soprano History and Identification

    As I mentioned the differences between 901 and 991 et al. for altos and tenors do not hold for sopranos. The S901 and the S991 are marketed and reportedly identical except for the removable neck and high-G key. If you have a documented, in-hand exception to this, it would be interesting to see it.

    As there is no SW01 or SW010 yet, it remains to be seen what Yanagisawa will do with its new, RUMORED, soprano designs.
    Soprano: New soprano coming soon; Vintage C-Mel Tenor project: Evette-Schaeffer, Buffet-Crampon Clarinet: Yamaha
    Alto: Noblet "Face" model (Designed by Dolnet?, made in the Beaugnier factory under Dolnet management for LeBlanc under the Noblet label. That's the musical instrument business.);

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    Default Re: Yanagisawa Soprano History and Identification

    I agree, lots of stuff which passes for facts being flung around
    Life is just a bowl... some have cherries in it, some don’t. Those who have the cherries aren’t likely to share them though.

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    Default Re: Yanagisawa Soprano History and Identification

    Do I have an 880?

    I have a Yanagisawa Elimona Professional Soprano Saxophone for sale. It is not curved. The serial number is 00140958. From what I can tell, this is an 880 from the 1986-87 era. I am 54. My father played sax. Grew up listening to him. He was a local sax icon but passed in 2000. He played alto and tenor. I bought this soprano thinking I would learn it, but have not. Looking to sell it after careful consideration, but I need to know what it is so I can clearly communicate to a buyer.

    The case and sax are in excellent condition. It has been used less than 3 hours in the past 14 years. No dent, dings, and does not appear to show worn areas...very, very clean. It comes with straight and curved neck pieces.

    Some say this is a great sax.

    You can see pictures here: https://www.ksl.com/classifieds/listing/44424668

    Is it an 880?

  14. #113
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    Default Re: Yanagisawa Soprano History and Identification

    As the ad says, technically this is known as an Elimona model. It was manufactured during a time, 1987, when these sopranos were marketed as a 2200SS. But yes, it is the same model that was known in other parts of the world and later became known at the S880.
    Soprano: New soprano coming soon; Vintage C-Mel Tenor project: Evette-Schaeffer, Buffet-Crampon Clarinet: Yamaha
    Alto: Noblet "Face" model (Designed by Dolnet?, made in the Beaugnier factory under Dolnet management for LeBlanc under the Noblet label. That's the musical instrument business.);

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    A friend of mine is selling a vintage yanagisasa soprano. I tried to help him identify it by coming here. Then I realized something, we have really great flow charts for things like Otto link metal mouthpieces. Can someone who has a good understanding of these sopranos make a flow chart for Yanagisasa sopranos? That would be ridiculously helpful for everyone instead of trying to read through all of this. Also, make it a sticky. :-D
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  16. #115
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    Default Re: Yanagisawa Soprano History and Identification

    Maybe I missed it in this thread, but I wonder when, how, and why did Yanagisawa become a Conn-Selmer/G. LeBlanc product?
    The absolute real reason I continue is the free shrimp at the cocktail hour. It's the little things.--- Rich Maraday

  17. #116
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    Default Re: Yanagisawa Soprano History and Identification

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloo Dog View Post
    Maybe I missed it in this thread, but I wonder when, how, and why did Yanagisawa become a Conn-Selmer/G. LeBlanc product?
    Leblanc is a distributor of Yanagisawa, unless something drastically changed in the last two years. Yani has and still does make stencils for the Vito line; traditionally labelled "Vito VSP." In Asia, Yani's distributed by two different companies, one of which is Prima Gakki. That's why (generally) some Yani 8xx series horns have "Prima" on the bell.

    I did do some updates to my Yani pages recently. If you have any questions, please post here -- I'm "watching" this thread -- or e-mail me @ thesaxinfo-at-gmail.com.
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    Default Re: Yanagisawa Soprano History and Identification

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Leblanc is a distributor of Yanagisawa, unless something drastically changed in the last two years.
    There is no more Leblanc, except as a brand owned by Conn-Selmer, which bought it out. Conn-Selmer is the U.S. Yanagisawa distributor.

    Yani has and still does make stencils for the Vito line; traditionally labelled "Vito VSP."
    Are you sure about "still does"? I don't think that is correct. I thought the Vito deal ended years ago. Do you have a source?

  19. #118
    Forum Contributor 2011 Pete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yanagisawa Soprano History and Identification

    Quote Originally Posted by LostConn View Post
    Are you sure about "still does"? I don't think that is correct. I thought the Vito deal ended years ago. Do you have a source?
    Well, I did say "two years." They discontinued the VSP bari in 2015. I'll make a note. Thanks for making me check.

    The C-S website only has curved sopranos and baritones on it
    . I can rationalize the curved sopranos easily: no other Conn-Selmer brand makes curved sopranos, so might as well make some cash by distributing them. Baritones? I dunno. Selmer has their BS500 and LaVoix lines -- Taiwanese "intermediate" horns -- so you'd think that C-S would be competing with themselves by selling the B901, which is in the same general price range: I'm sure they'd make less profit off a Yani sale than they would on a LaVoix sale.
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  20. #119
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    Default Re: Yanagisawa Soprano History and Identification

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Well, I did say "two years." They discontinued the VSP bari in 2015. I'll make a note. Thanks for making me check.

    The C-S website only has curved sopranos and baritones on it
    . I can rationalize the curved sopranos easily: no other Conn-Selmer brand makes curved sopranos, so might as well make some cash by distributing them. Baritones? I dunno. Selmer has their BS500 and LaVoix lines -- Taiwanese "intermediate" horns -- so you'd think that C-S would be competing with themselves by selling the B901, which is in the same general price range: I'm sure they'd make less profit off a Yani sale than they would on a LaVoix sale.
    The Conn-Selmer site is actually missing a lot of instruments sold by their various brands.
    Current setups:
    Yamaha YSS-875EX, Selmer Soloist D, Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YAS-875EXS, Selmer Air Flow C*, Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YTS-875EX, Selmer Air Flow C*, Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    Kessler Solist Bari, Selmer Air Flow C*, BG Tradition lig, Vandoren 3

  21. #120
    Forum Contributor 2011 Pete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yanagisawa Soprano History and Identification

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Max View Post
    The Conn-Selmer site is actually missing a lot of instruments sold by their various brands.
    I would have said that last year. At that time, they were about 4 years out-of-date. They updated it this year. I'm *relatively* sure that what's on there, now, is what they're actually selling. If you want to call or e-mail C-S, please do and post back!

    There are a lot of places that have been selling off old stock. I also see that with Buffet, which recently refreshed their student models (and my forum's sponsor sold a couple hundred of the old B-series student models). They've also got a revamped website.

    FWIW, I've been suggesting that you might want to look at Japanese websites (like soundfuga.jp; don't view it in English) because they're much, much cheaper. You should also use a currency converter, but if you just subtract the last two zeroes in the price -- e.g. 275,000 yen minus two zeroes is 2750 -- that's a pretty good price guesstimate in US dollars, although it's on the high side of "guesstimate." Prima-Gakki is also relatively cheap: a brand spankin' new S-WO1 lacquer soprano is 278,000 yen. That's $2440 US. US dealer? $3800. Hey, you might be able to get a round trip flight there for less than $1300.
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