Recording of sopranino on Bolero? - Page 2

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  1. #21
    Jordan Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Recording of sopranino on Bolero?

    To know what he created first, we'd need to look at the first score with saxophone, "The Last King of Judah". It's for Bb bass.
    Saxophone Ensemble and Saxophone Choir Director, Youth Orchestra of Central Jersey
    Adjunct Professor of Music, Saint Peter's University
    www.jordanpsmith.com

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: Recording of sopranino on Bolero?

    Quote Originally Posted by A.Smith View Post
    Half of the Diastema quartet.
    Uh huh, I recognize them in this video:


  4. #23
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    Default Re: Recording of sopranino on Bolero?

    Quote Originally Posted by drwhippet View Post
    Uh huh, I recognize them in this video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhyoKbu4mlc
    They sound very nice. Thanks for posting this.

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    Default Re: Recording of sopranino on Bolero?

    Maestro Eschenbach conserves his energy, waiting patiently for the arrival of the mothership.

  6. #25
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    Default Re: Recording of sopranino on Bolero?

    Quote Originally Posted by badaj View Post
    Maestro Eschenbach conserves his energy, waiting patiently for the arrival of the mothership.
    Ha!

  7. #26
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    Default Re: Recording of sopranino on Bolero?

    Old thread, new reply. There is an interview with Marcel Mule in which he discusses playing the premier of Bolero, which he later played with Ravel present a number of times. (I don't remember if Ravel conducted the premier, but I don't think so) He said that they (the saxes) were mystified by the sopranino in F inscription on the part. None of them had ever heard of one. The previous professor of saxophone at the conservatoire had been Adolph Sax, and he apparently had left no clues to any such existence of said instrument. So, Mule played it on soprano, transposing the part as most of us do today. Ravel never said anything, nor did they tell Ravel about it. Apparently Ravel was not one to take suggestions from musicians unless he asked for them, and Mule said he never really talked to the saxophonists.

    Any such instruments have been made since then by aficionados who wanted to impress their conductors by having the right instrument for the part.

    That said, a number of conductors have insisted on using a sopranino/soprano combo as written, thinking that maybe there was a coloration difference. I'd say that in that range, the coloration was hardly noticeable, except for the fact that mouthpieces for Sopranino are in short supply, there being very few models and facings available. Therefore, most sopranino players do not have access to the kind of sound they probably would like to produce.

    I have performed it with Dallas and Mexico City symphonies as written, in addition to other orchestras on soprano and/or tenor, but I never played the sopranino part. I played the soprano in the hand-off, after having played the tenor solo. In the Mexico City winter, at that altitude, reeds were a tremendous problem for someone who had just flown in to play the part. The poor chap who played sopranino once found himself faced with recalcitrant reeds, causing much trouble on what is really a very simple part. The glisses ended in squeaks, and I felt very sorry for him, for he was an extremely fine player. But Bolero is a mystical piece to perform. If someone has a bad solo, it tends to go like dominos, culminating in the extreme catastrophe of the trombone entrance. That was the case in one of the Mexico City performances, on which the sopranino player squeaked so badly. I think about half the soloists flubbed something. I played fine, but the tenor solo presents little challenge, and the soprano handoff leaves hardly anything to flub.

    I wish someone would explain to the publishers that Ravel was simply mistaken about the "Sopranino in F," and put an end to all attempts at so-called authenticity with an instrument that did not exist. It is unnecessary, problematic, and adds nothing to the piece even when done flawlessly. Nobody cares! Soprano plays the range perfectly, and has enough of that juvenile voice in that register to pass for a sopranino. Nobody specializes in sopranino, so they're never going to be at their orchestral best when playing that double. Ravel made a mistake. Let's admit that the composer was not above a simple error in the availability and keys of an instrument hardly ever heard in the orchestra up to that point. Publish the parts for Soprano and Tenor, and put that absurdity behind us! It's a popular piece of music that will be played into eternity, so do the future a favor and get rid of the mistake!

    Shooshie

  8. #27
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    Default Re: Recording of sopranino on Bolero?

    I meant to add, but got distracted with tangents (sorry) that the Dallas Symphony did a recording with the original instrumentation (Sopranino in Eb, however, not F, of course) back in about 1980 or 1981. I don't know if it's still in print. Probably not. The conductor would have been Eduardo Mata, and it was recorded and released on LP by RCA Tel-Arc. The saxophonists were Mike Adamcik (sopranino) and Dennis Diemond (tenor/soprano). They did a beautiful job. I have heard it on the radio in the past few years, but that doesn't mean it's available. Dallas did a number of recordings with saxophone, some of which I played on. I have not been able to find the ones I'm on since about 1995, when I found a CD in a bargain bin in a music store in Phoenix, so I assume the Bolero recording is also out of circulation.

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    Default Re: Recording of sopranino on Bolero?

    No video of the performance, but this sounds like split nino/soprano.

    Ravel - Bolero (Scrolling Score): http://youtu.be/CJRE1y5uxOM

  10. #29
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    Default Re: Recording of sopranino on Bolero?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shooshie View Post
    I meant to add, but got distracted with tangents (sorry) that the Dallas Symphony did a recording with the original instrumentation (Sopranino in Eb, however, not F, of course) back in about 1980 or 1981. I don't know if it's still in print. Probably not. The conductor would have been Eduardo Mata, and it was recorded and released on LP by RCA Tel-Arc. The saxophonists were Mike Adamcik (sopranino) and Dennis Diemond (tenor/soprano). They did a beautiful job. I have heard it on the radio in the past few years, but that doesn't mean it's available. Dallas did a number of recordings with saxophone, some of which I played on. I have not been able to find the ones I'm on since about 1995, when I found a CD in a bargain bin in a music store in Phoenix, so I assume the Bolero recording is also out of circulation.
    It's still available and cheap… just found it for $3 on Amazon…

    Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
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    Yamaha YSS-875EX, Selmer Soloist C**, Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YAS-875EXS, Rousseau RC4 (refaced by Brian Powell), Ishimori lig,Hemke 3.5
    Yamaha YTS-875EX, Rousseau NC4, Ishimori lig, Hemke 3.5
    Kessler Solist Bari, Rousseau NC4, BG Tradition lig, Hemke 3.5

  11. #30
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    Default Re: Recording of sopranino on Bolero?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yamahaaltoplayer View Post
    No video of the performance, but this sounds like split nino/soprano.

    Ravel - Bolero (Scrolling Score): http://youtu.be/CJRE1y5uxOM
    I listened to it, and I don't think it was a split. I could hear him/her crossing the break at soprano points, not nino points. Plus, the handoff was without change in airstream, meaning it was just a slurred passage, not an end and beginning of phrase. And lastly, the player sounded the same. Same blunt phrasing.

    Tenor player in the linked recording tried to do the gliss both with fingering and voicing, causing it to start a whole step lower than written. My, I'm quite the critic today. It's just that we have to maintain a standard to be taken seriously enough to be used in the orchestra. Of course, there's no telling when that recording was made. But if it's an old recording, it goes to show that every performance counts. What's recorded stays around forever.

    In Mata's Dallas Symphony recording with my friends playing, I can clearly tell them apart, though the average listener probably would not notice the switch. Dennis tended to use a faster, narrower vibrato than Mike, and more curved phrasing. Both sounded great; I'm just pointing out differences of style.

    Shooshie

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    Default Re: Recording of sopranino on Bolero?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shooshie View Post
    I listened to it, and I don't think it was a split. I could hear him/her crossing the break at soprano points, not nino points. Plus, the handoff was without change in airstream, meaning it was just a slurred passage, not an end and beginning of phrase. And lastly, the player sounded the same. Same blunt phrasing.

    Tenor player in the linked recording tried to do the gliss both with fingering and voicing, causing it to start a whole step lower than written. My, I'm quite the critic today. It's just that we have to maintain a standard to be taken seriously enough to be used in the orchestra. Of course, there's no telling when that recording was made. But if it's an old recording, it goes to show that every performance counts. What's recorded stays around forever.

    In Mata's Dallas Symphony recording with my friends playing, I can clearly tell them apart, though the average listener probably would not notice the switch. Dennis tended to use a faster, narrower vibrato than Mike, and more curved phrasing. Both sounded great; I'm just pointing out differences of style.

    Shooshie
    Whoops! My bad! I listened to this a long time ago and was at first fascinated by the "sopranino en Fa" marking, and didn't listen to it again before I posted the link. I listened again now and without a doubt, what you said is accurate. However, the tone quality at the beginning can be misleading. Also not my taste is stylistic interpretation either though.

  13. #32
    Distinguished SOTW Member EgilF.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Recording of sopranino on Bolero?

    Does anyone have the sheet music for the sopranino part on Bolero?
    Julius Keilwerth SX90II soprano - Runyon Custom .070" - Red Java 2.5 / Cannonball Big Bell Stones Series alto - Beechler Custom Bellite .082" - Red Java 2.5 / JK SX90R Tenor - Sugal KW II .110" - ZZ 3.5 / Taishan baritone - Vandoren V16 B9 .110" - Vandoren ZZ 2.5

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    Default Re: Recording of sopranino on Bolero?


  15. #34
    Distinguished SOTW Member EgilF.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Recording of sopranino on Bolero?

    Quote Originally Posted by berlin View Post
    Thank you very much!
    Julius Keilwerth SX90II soprano - Runyon Custom .070" - Red Java 2.5 / Cannonball Big Bell Stones Series alto - Beechler Custom Bellite .082" - Red Java 2.5 / JK SX90R Tenor - Sugal KW II .110" - ZZ 3.5 / Taishan baritone - Vandoren V16 B9 .110" - Vandoren ZZ 2.5

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