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Peter Ponzol Pro One model saxophones by Antigua Winds

55K views 144 replies 40 participants last post by  milandro 
#1 · (Edited)
Double post
 
#2 ·
First, and not intending to be too much of a cynic, isn't every horn supposed to be a "player's horn?" I never quite got that one from the advertisers. I mean, who else would the horn be for? The parents? A band director? The sound guy? The cocktail waitress? Well, I guess it possible on some of those, but it always seemed like a "no duh" kind of description.

Second, I would like to hear from the engineers and physics majors out there regarding the correlation between the width of the bell at the opening and the "spreadness" of the sound.

Nonetheless, it's always fun to see innovators tinkering with design aspects to shape the sound and responsiveness of any instrument, and I wish them well. Variety and spice and all that.
 
#3 ·
The name "Pro One" would suggest an instrument for professionals, rather than a beginner or intermediate instrument. Perhaps that is what they mean. I'm also very curious about how they figure the bell affects the "core" of the tone. From Dr. Joe Wolfe:

"The effect of the bell is that of a high pass filter. We could say that this is rather like the cut-off frequency effect of a series of open tone holes. In fact, one purpose of the saxophone's bell chiefly is to provide a high pass filter for the lowest few notes, so that they have a cut-off frequency and so behave more similarly to the notes produced with several tone holes open. As far as fundamental frequencies go, the bell is really only important to the lowest notes. However, it is important to the high harmonics of most notes. ... The bell cuts in at 1.8 kHz for the tenor and 2.6 kHz for the soprano. Above these frequencies the instruments have hardly any resonances...."

So it would appear to have an affect on the relative brightness or darkness of the tone, rather than the core.
 
#4 ·
From Dr. Joe Wolfe:

"The effect of the bell is that of a high pass filter. We could say that this is rather like the cut-off frequency effect of a series of open tone holes. In fact, one purpose of the saxophone's bell chiefly is to provide a high pass filter for the lowest few notes, so that they have a cut-off frequency and so behave more similarly to the notes produced with several tone holes open. As far as fundamental frequencies go, the bell is really only important to the lowest notes. However, it is important to the high harmonics of most notes. ... The bell cuts in at 1.8 kHz for the tenor and 2.6 kHz for the soprano. Above these frequencies the instruments have hardly any resonances...."
I'd like to see a re-wording of this, because I read it a dozen times and in some ways it sounds more like a description of a LOW pass filter. Unless he means the bell cuts out frequencies below 1.8kHz, which really wouldn't make sense.

Wording aside, I'm very excited. You can bet Ponzol wouldn't allow his name on a horn unless it was great. It's rumored that he ended his association with Keilwerth because of a design disagreement. Something to do with the bow, I heard? Great timing, too. Antigua just might win over some Keilwerth faithfuls.
 
#6 ·
For what it's worth, I've been road testing a Bauhaus M2 tenor for some time now - and recently I had the chance to try out a new batch. Same model, but with a standard bell rather than the wide one.
The tone of both horns is essentially the same, but the one with the standard bell give a more focussed and directed sound (the wide bell seems to have more of a 'sawn off shotgun' projection) and has slightly less bass response over its range.
This adds up to a horn with the same characterstics of the wide bell version, but with more punch.

In general I'd say this was what I'd expect.

Regards,
 
#12 ·
Wherever it's made I was very disappointed to read the blurb in the company's press release:

"Pro One saxophones are crafted from a special Vintage Reserve(tm) brass alloy material which shares the metallurgy of post-war French saxophones. This gives Pro-One instruments a certain tone character that sounds "right". The Vintage Reserve alloy promotes quick and accurate response, wide dynamic range, and centred, well-focused tone."

It went straight into my Myths & Materials article:

http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/misc/myths_and_materials.htm

Regards,
 
#13 ·
The sax is made in Taiwan to Ponzol's design specifics. There is no attempt to hide that info at all. Regarding the bell, etc, people can have at it with their "scientific" knowledge, most of which, when I read posts on such subjects on SOTW, become somewhat convoluted because it seems that if everyone knows what they are talking about, there would be one, not several conclusions.

Anyway, I have never cared about the whys but rather the results. The results of the design features, rolled tone holes on the lower holes and straight on the upper, a bell that is somewhat between a conventional Selmer-ish size and a Keilwerth size, is that the instrument has an exceptional evenness to the tone from the bottom to the top. Additionally, subtoning on the lower notes is like breathing into the horn.
 
#14 ·
Anyway, I have never cared about the whys but rather the results. The results of the design features, rolled tone holes on the lower holes and straight on the upper, a bell that is somewhat between a conventional Selmer-ish size and a Keilwerth size, is that the instrument has an exceptional evenness to the tone from the bottom to the top. Additionally, subtoning on the lower notes is like breathing into the horn.
You've played one? It says on my blurb that the production models will be introduced at Namm 2011...and I'm hoping to get my hands on one at Frankfurt.

Regards,
 
#15 ·
Full disclosure: Antigua Winds (AW) is in San Antonio and I'm in Austin, not that far away. I was lucky enough to meet with Peter and Kerry Klingborg, AW exec, as they were meeting over plans regarding the Pro One and they had two prototypes. Hopefully, I can get a'hold of an alto and tenor soon and report back to you folks what I find. It might not be possible, though, because I wil be having surgery sometime within the next few weeks. Stay tuned.
 
#16 ·
Fair enough - so to clarify "the instrument has an exceptional evenness to the tone from the bottom to the top. Additionally, subtoning on the lower notes is like breathing into the horn." relates to your having played the prototypes?

I have high hopes for the horn having spoken to Peter about it - I just wish they'd concentrated on the tangible rather than drift off into dubious marketing-speak.

(PS Hope the OP goes OK ).

Regards,
 
#19 ·
I have high hopes for the horn having spoken to Peter about it - I just wish they'd concentrated on the tangible rather than drift off into dubious marketing-speak.
I know what you mean about the state of advertisement in general, but you know as a marketer they have to compete for attention with all the other hype that's out there, from Hindu-god named mpc to mpcs with effortless power and beauty designed to Golden Section Proportioning and saxes with mythological magical stones which, strategically placed, enhance the vibrations which surge through the sax body. Whatchgonnado?

PS Hope the OP goes OK. Regards,
Thanks, Stephen. I appreciate that very much.
 
#24 ·
. . . and yet another negative post by whaler, prejudiced by his disdain for Taiwanese instruments, and not based on any realistic proof like, uh, his actually picking one up and playing it.
 
#33 ·
Are you referring to a certain horn sold by a certain person 'who shall not be named'?
If so, my comments about it were made on A.M.S and not my site - they remain archived in Google Groups. In any event the comments I made were in respect of the mechanical aspects of the 'unique design features' - I even believe I said that the horn may nonetheless be a good blower.

If you saw reference to such comments as being on my site then they probably came from someone notoriously unreliable.

Regards,
 
#34 ·
If you saw reference to such comments as being on my site then they probably came from someone notoriously unreliable.
I thought I recalled an article about it that appeared on your site for a short time... where the title, if I recall correctly, was in regard to the price. But yes, it was discussed on AMS... where you said, "but I can tell you it's entirely possible to comment with accuracy about mechanical design features without having to see them..." Don't see any difference here really.
 
#38 ·
Yes, but he was basing his disdain for this latest offering on a technical point when it was pointed out he hadn't played one. He was never talking about response, even when expanding his view; just better offerings. Given his previous technical criticism of the horn in question, it would follow that he felt the other horns he named were better built horns. I don't see how you can make this a response issue; though you're certainly free to ask Whaler if that's what he meant.
 
#39 ·
Indeed I am, and he is equally as free to point out what he meant.
I'm working on my interpretation of what he said and the subsequent conversation, and the fact that he didn't at that time choose to call out the relevant comment - and I feel quite sure he'll be only too pleased to correct me if he feels I've misinterpreted his point.

Regards,
 
#40 ·
I guess Ponzol is the saxophone world's version of The Hoff. More appreciated over there than here.
We don't really need to play all of these horns to know what they are like, do we? These guys just buy these horns at the same few factories and stamp their name on them. We've been down this road a million times here.
 
#41 ·
He's got a decent enough international reputation, and if you talk to the guy it's very clear he knows what he's talking about.
When I spoke to him last year about this new horn he said he was being given carte blanche to design the horn from the ground up. I got the impression he was more than a little excited about it - I think in years gone by the accountants at various manufacturers might have cooled his passion somewhat.
On the basis of his previous work I'd be very inclined to take this project seriously ( in spite of the advertising blurb ).

Regards,
 
#44 ·
quote""another cookie cutter Chinese horn"

Well let's see, you woke up this morning and hit your Chinese alarm clock, turned on your Chinese bedside lamp, checked your Chinese phone, then staggered into the kitchen where you turned on your Chinese coffee maker, grabbed your Chinese coffee mug, and sat down in your Chinese chair in front of your Chinese computer. A few minutes later you used your Chinese toothbrush, put on your Chinese clothes, Chinese watch, and Chinese shoes and then -- if you're lucky enough to own one -- you got in your (mostly) Chinese car and went to work.

But you'd never dream of buying a Chinese saxophone -- everyone knows Chinese people can't make anything properly!
 
#46 ·
Your arguement is a valid one inasmuch as people will sometimes say "I refuse to buy anything Chinese!" without realising that they probably already have. Indeed, if they're typing such comments it's a safe bet that their computer is powered by components built there...if not wholly built there.
The cookie cutter comment refers more to the practise of churning out copies of horns - or horns that are largely similar. That too is a valid arguement - but in the case of the Pro-One I think it's at best misguided.
But we shall see.

Regards,
 
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