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immitatating a English Horn

8K views 22 replies 14 participants last post by  qwerty 
#1 ·
I have to double on alto sax for an english horn part for Aaron Copland's Quiet City and wanted to know how to get closest to that sound i play in my upper register for a large section of it and don't want to sound shrill, for this i'm using a selmer c* i was thinking about getting some vandoren V12s and a rovner dark lig do you think this would get me closer to my objective tone?





Thanks in advance, jay
 
#2 ·
I think listening to some good EH recordings to get the sound into your head would be the most beneficial thing you could do. Thomas Stacy and Carolyn Hove both have solo recordings available.
 
#3 ·
I don't really think that the ligature does anything for sound quality. Response, sure. Tone, not so much.
Don't really buy that different reeds do a whole lot anyway. Personally, I'd go for as small as possible tip opening and some 2x4's for reeds.
Don't know how else to help you. I don't know how low you have to go but I'd be tempted to do it on a soprano
 
#4 ·
i go down to my low D
i've never done this before but i always assumed the rule was double for english horn on alto and oboe on soprano...idk


thanks guys
 
#5 ·
Well that's because the ranges overlap and the transpositions are easier.
Oboe in C, sop in Bb. up a step
EH in F, Alto in Eb, up a step.
Makes for some wicked simple transpositions, and with the ranges being almost identical it's convenient.
When you said you were playing in high range and didn't want to sound thin, my first thought was to use a soprano, but soprano only is effective to an altos low G *can get to the F, but few sops are in regulation enough to where you can control that low Bb*
 
#6 ·
I think you need an F Mezzo-Soprano or Conn-O-Sax...
 
#7 ·
Copland's Quiet City was originally written with an alto saxophone part for the original music for the play. This version to my knowledge has been completely lost though, and the version we have today was another version Copland made with trumpet and english horn. I'd highly suggest you contact Christopher Brellochs, who has reconstructed the original Quiet City score and could probably shed some light on how best to approach this.

For what it's worth, I just conducted this work at MSM and you're going to want a mouthpiece and sound that will blend with the dark and lush qualities of the work. I'd personally go with a caravan piece on this one, as I think you'll do a whole lot less "fighting" and a whole lot more playing.
 
#11 ·
I wouldn't worry too much about trying to sound like an English horn, and I agree with Jordan's assessment of the tonal considerations. If the conductor asked you to play it on saxophone, they were probably concerned with one of two options: 1) the part needs to be played and there isn't an English horn available; or 2) the conductor feels that the saxophone tone is suitable for this part. Either way, the part is in your hands now. Remember Marcel Mule playing the trumpet part on soprano for Bach's Brandenburg Concerto (No. 2?, I believe) with Pablo Casals conducting. I don't think he considered trying to sound like a trumpet.
 
#12 ·
Remember Marcel Mule playing the trumpet part on sopranino for Bach's Brandenburg Concerto (No. 2?, I believe) with Pablo Casals conducting. I don't think he considered trying to sound like a trumpet.
He was probably just trying to sound awesome. Mission accomplished.

I have a ton of Marcel Mule recordings, and to me, that one is by far the best.
 
#13 ·
Listen to an english horn player like here:


English horn and alto have very similar tonal qualities but the colors and completely different. Thus reeds and such shouldn't do you so much good. You won't sound like an english horn regardless of your skill, but just try to sound as good as possible. Don't get english horn hooked in your head to much. Focus on the music
 
#18 ·
Jay,

I research acoustics in saxophone sound, and the acoustic properties of all other wind instruments, for some of my work at NASA (space, not sax), and for my audi-graph software. Based on the research/recordings, tone color and tone quality of the oboe or english horn is very unique, and likely quite difficult to reproduce on the saxophone. This is because the oboe english horn sound has very prominent overtone and harmonic frequencies with diminished fundamentals, whereas the the saxophone gets it mostly from the fundamental with diminished overtone and harmonic frequencies. Oboe English Horn are unique in this way, which is why their sound is so unique.

In addition, the timbre is different... the fundamental physical design of the oboe is to highlight a different combination of the harmonic frequencies (we'll say like fundamental, 7th, 8th, 2nd, and 10th), whereas the saxophone is designed to produce something different (we'll say fundamental, 5th, 8th, 3rd, 5th). This is why an english horn sounds doesn't sound like a saxophone, even if you're both playing the same note.

To be able to modify your embouchure on your sax to match that of an oboe could be possible, to an extent, but extremely difficult with traditional methods, especially in a short time. However, audi-graph could help you get there faster by visually comparing your sound to an oboe sound, so you can learn just how to manipulate your technique to best match it.

Remember, anything is possible with enough practice! Sing like a trumpet and you can win a Grammy!
 
#20 ·
In high school I played in the pit for several musicals, and we had no double reed players at our school, so I would do my best using my alto. I made a primitive mute made of fiberglass surrounded by masking tape, and stuck in lightly into the top of my bell. It will not make your alto sound like a bassoon or english horn, but it will make it sound less like a typical sax, especially for the notes having "two hand" fingerings. If you don't play any notes lower than D1 you should be able to play them with something stuffed lightly in the top area of your bell.
 
#23 ·
All I can think of with this thread is the old joke.

Q: How do you make a trombone sound like a French Horn?
A: Stick your hand in the bell and miss a lot of notes.
 
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