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Vandoren V12s: Cheapest way to tame a Classical Z

4K views 13 replies 8 participants last post by  heathsax 
#1 ·
Hello all,

If you are having trouble getting a sweet classical sound of your Yamaha Custom Zs, then look no farther than the new V12 reeds from Vandoren. Based on posts on this forum, I bought them and couldn't be happier with that decision! I slipped my first reed out of the box (STRENGTH 3.5) and slipped it on my Rousseau NC5 with Rovner Dark ligature. I no longer had to fight the urge to scream on the high register G and above. The articulation was crisp and clean, but I am still investigating ways to get the horn to sound less airy/breathy. I tried my BG Tradition GP lig for a brighter sound still and the airy sound was less noticeable still. The Vandoren V12s 3.5s feel a little stronger than my Vandoren Traditional 3s and JaVA 4s. The complex, dark sound and consistency (I've tried 4 reeds so far and all work great!) make this a great buy for about $30.

Well, gotta go to work.
 
#2 ·
The V12 is for alto. Do you know what is the best classical reed for a Rousseau NC3 tenor mouthpiece? I'm having trouble with this mpc but I want to keep it and try some other reeds on it. Probably the ones I'm using are not hard enough. I just have up to 2 3/4. I have a breathy sound on soft notes but I kinda like that.
 
#10 ·
The Rousseau can be a nice mouthpiece but just test drive some reeds. I found the Rousseau to be much to resistant for me when I first tried it 5.5 years ago (lol!) so I personally would try a La Voz reed. La Voz reeds can be used both for classical and jazz and have a lively tone that plays straight out of the box without warmup if you need to. On the other hand I feel they lack the complexity of my Hemke and Alexander Classique reeds.

And as for "Tame an 82z" I actually for the 82z to be most tame than the 875. The whole "this horn is for classical" "this horn is for jazz" is complete bull. The 82z has a more core sound and is more down the line than the 875. The 875 is much, much brighter but has a nice flurry of colors and feels very free blowing. It depends on what you want out of a classical instrument, don't let anyone tell you less.
 
#3 ·
"BEST" is extremely subjective, so be ready to open a "can of worms", if you will, by using subjective terms like this. Seeing as how you use softer reeds (probably a less developed embouchure), different things will work differently for you than me. That being said, if you're going for a sound on the darker end of the spectrum, then you should give the V12s a try. I assume from the quarter strength style that you use that you are playing on Gonzalez reeds. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I have tried the Gonzalez reeds on my tenor (YTS-23; S-80 C*; Rovner Dark) with decent results. They gave me a slightly darker sound but caused more resistance on the lower notes than the tonal contrast was worth to me. They have about the same lifespan as Vandoren Traditionals, but the V12s are just more consistent and longer lasting for me (2 weeks to a month longer). Of course, as referenced by others, people with more acidic saliva may have a reed last a couple of weeks less than those with less acidic.

Now I also use a Rousseau New Classic on tenor (NC4). I've only used blue-box Vandoren 3s on them and am fighting my stronger embouchure from playing alto so much. So, I guess it's time to switch to a harder reed. Otherwise, I love the NC4 (especially its intonation).
 
#4 ·
Thanks for your reply. Correct it is Gonzalez. I could only find V12 for alto. Are you saying I can use alto reeds on a tenor? The Rousseau probably wasn't a great choice for me since I am a beginner but I found it is very good for practice because I just went back to the original La Voix mpc and suddenly I can play. After reading your post, I was thinking maybe the right reed will make the Rousseau more playable for me. I'm looking now for a dark mpc which is not too expensive and not too difficult if you have any suggestions. I like it very dark. I'm keeping the Rousseau though because I might be able to play it later.
 
#6 ·
I'm sorry, I wasn't paying close enough attention to the fact that you were playing tenor. No, alto reeds are too small to fit on a tenor mouthpiece (you won't even be able to get the reed to stay on, much less make a sound), though the opposite is true of tenor reeds on alto for obvious reasons. Since the only tenor reeds I've ever tried are Gonzalez (3s), Vandoren Traditional (3s and 3 1/2s), and Vandoren ZZ (2 1/2; Meyer 5m mouthpiece), I don't have enough experience to tell you the "who's who" of reed brands, etc. Like all saxophonists, you will have to learn about the reeds and try them based on your judgement of their description and how others sound on the same setup (not so much the second choice because there is the oral cavity/individual theory that says different individuals will sound different when using the same setup).

You say you want a dark tone, huh? Well, do some searches on reeds that are notorious for producing that same sound concept. Different people do have different ideas of what bright/dark mean, so you have to take their advice with a little discretion. Ultimately, the best thing you can do for yourself is to do a little trial-and-error. Here is a list of reeds to investigate (not very long because, like I said, I'm not very experienced with reeds):
1) Vandoren Traditional (the favorite of classical sax reeds around the world)
2) Gonzalez (more consistent at a competitive price)
3) Alexander Classique
4) Francois Louis
5) Rico (lots of different makes on this one)
. . . and many more.

As far as dark mouthpieces go, if you like it really dark, many people will suggest different things depending on the type of dark sound you're going for. If you want the ideal Classical/orchestral music dark sound, then many will suggest Caravan large-chambers, Morgan 3Cs (over $200), and Rascher style pieces. A brighter orchestral sound may give way to suggestions of Selmer S-80s and S-90s, Rousseau NCs, and many more. Tip opening is very crucial in picking a mouthpiece as is baffle and chamber size. For a dark sound, you typically want a smaller tip size, as little baffle as possible, and a medium-large to large chamber. Baffle creates an edgy sound that has no place in legit (another word for classical) music. Large chambers make sound wave travel longer than smaller ones giving you a darker (to the ear, a smaller) sound. A small tip size is crucial because larger ones allow to push the sound more and that doesn't help when you want to blend with an ensemble.
 
#7 ·
As far as dark mouthpieces go, if you like it really dark, many people will suggest different things depending on the type of dark sound you're going for. If you want the ideal Classical/orchestral music dark sound, then many will suggest Caravan large-chambers, Morgan 3Cs (over $200), and Rascher style pieces. A brighter orchestral sound may give way to suggestions of Selmer S-80s and S-90s, Rousseau NCs, and many more. Tip opening is very crucial in picking a mouthpiece as is baffle and chamber size. For a dark sound, you typically want a smaller tip size, as little baffle as possible, and a medium-large to large chamber. Baffle creates an edgy sound that has no place in legit (another word for classical) music. Large chambers make sound wave travel longer than smaller ones giving you a darker (to the ear, a smaller) sound. A small tip size is crucial because larger ones allow to push the sound more and that doesn't help when you want to blend with an ensemble.
You can't say that it has no place because there are some who like it in legit. "IMO" would have been a better choice
 
#8 ·
By the way, on a more closed mouthpiece you may want a harder reed, while on an open mouthpiece, softer ones help.

Sorry. Lovano is right. Some like edge in their sound, but it is more ideal for solo playing than ensemble playing because the brighter frequency is heard over the band, more often than not.
 
#11 ·
If I'm not mistaking, the Custom 875 was developed and refined by Yamaha with the collaboration of Rousseau himself, and was developed particularly for use as a classical instrument.
 
#12 ·
Correct. Dr. Rousseau was the primary designer on all of the Yamaha horns up to the 855/875 line. I don't know that the primary use for any saxophone is classical or jazz, but some lend themselves better to one than another, and the 855/875 definitely leans more towards classical music. The 82Z line was developed with Phil Woods, so it leans more towards the jazz side of things.

There is a reason that classical players play 875s. It's a darker, heavier horn than the 62 or 82Z. I can't think of any prominent players that use an 82Z for classical playing.
 
#14 ·
I play on a silver Z and I have been told I have an amazing classical sound. It's not perfect (I'm only a lowly high schooler) but I have been told I have a very mature sound.
 
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