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New Vintage Slant Link Thoughts

147K views 407 replies 100 participants last post by  whaler 
#1 ·
Hi everybody!
I just wanted to write my quick review of the new vintage slant, as I know a lot of people are interested in trying these and I hope this info will be helpful. I was following the info myself and had a chance to order from tenormaddness right after they got it in stock.:)

First of all I want to say that I'm a Tone Edge player myself. I have a bunch of different Links that I use including new and vintage models. As you know, these are not "chops in a box". Only after certain time spent in practice room you get to know how to play it and learn flexibility of each piece.

The Link I got from tenormaddnes is an amazing mouthpiece. :):):) It has very low serial number 0197 and it doesn't have USA on the shank. I've seen several pictures and all of them had USA. Interestingly mine doesnt. The baffle shape is very accurate and it goes very smoothe into the floor and chamber, no concavity, nothing. Rails are very accurate and table looks pretty flat to me. It appears to me that the chamber is slightly smaller due to more material under the table. And the floor height measures exactly the same as my Early Babitt. Identical.
Does it play identical? Well....the tone color is the same with different EQ in the high's. It doesn't necessarily means that it plays brighter, but boost in high's makes it feel so. Is the volume the same? No, it is definitely louder. You can still play pretty dark on it, and subtones are very lush and full. It can play as dark as my EB, but louder. This is the loudest Link I've ever played, it just projects! I believe it is due to a slightly smaller chamber and vintage like high floor.
How is the rubber quality I really don't know, looks fine to me. But basically this is a great piece and it definitely a winner for me. I'm still in process learning this piece and it get's better and better every day. First day when I was comparing it to my trusted old Early Babbitt I was not as happy as I'm today after playing it for a while. Today I compared it to EB and for some time I found EB to be a bit duller? Did I say that? Yes, it felt that way, no not brighter, but this new slant is somehow gets cleaner sound! Yes cleaner, I think this is the right word.
More time will show where it will go for me, but for now I just want to tell that it is a great mouthpiece and if you a Link player you really need to try it, I'm sure there will be opposite reviews, but for everyone it's different. What considered dark for one person- is bright for another and visa versa. All those things are very subjective and of course it's up to a player how you play it.
For me as a Link player it is very projective and loud with a good real Link core sound! Just wanted to get this info for those who interested and I hope this information will help you!
All have a great day! Peace :)

here are some pictures

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii238/zulfjazz/new vintage slant/IMG_5219.jpg
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii238/zulfjazz/new vintage slant/IMG_5221.jpg
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii238/zulfjazz/new vintage slant/IMG_5224.jpg
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii238/zulfjazz/new vintage slant/IMG_5227.jpg
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii238/zulfjazz/new vintage slant/IMG_5235.jpg
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii238/zulfjazz/new vintage slant/IMG_5240.jpg
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii238/zulfjazz/new vintage slant/IMG_5243.jpg
 
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#223 ·
Interesting comments on these. I haven't seen or played one yet, but how short were the facing lengths seen on the new vintage slants? Actually 24mm (48) was the typical facing length on a good old link, they usually wear over time to 25mm (50) but start to get a little muddy and loose the clean precise attack. This is specific to the 95 to 105 tip opening range...
I expect they are an improvement over the previous stock production pieces, but for my money Ted Klum's Focus Tones are the truest reproduction of the Otto Link, both in terms of chamber and facing. Especially now that he has hard rubber versions...
 
#226 ·
ArkansasRed - the hard rubber version isn't readily available yet - a month or so.
Horned Toad - interesting. I have more than a dozen links, mostly slants...the focus tone plays very similar to the best of what I have, and subtly better. I've spent a lot of time at Ted's so I've had the luxury of playing a lot a stuff through the evolution. Not sure what your link reference point is but the focus tone was built off a lost wax mold of a link. I've seen and played the original reference link and seen the mold. I play 4.5 reeds on a 98 tip opening so perhaps we just differ on what our experience of the original links we like.
 
#229 ·
This thread was originally about the new Otto Links -- which I have yet to check out... but eagerly await the opportunity when I'll thoroughly get to inspect the new breed...

I've spent a lot of time at Ted's so I've had the luxury of playing a lot a stuff through the evolution. Not sure what your link reference point is but the focus tone was built off a lost wax mold of a link.
OK - Not trying to start an argument - just set the record straight. I've also spent quite a lot of time at Ted's and have watched his business evolve over the years.

Ted Klum's FocusTone is most certainly not "built off a lost wax mold of a link." The chamber is quite different: the contour and shape of the sidewalls, and how they flow into the chamber is altogether different. It is actually bigger and more dug-out than a Link in certain places... and does not have the "ring" shape in the deepest part of the chamber.

WarneLee - Since you have spent a lot of time at Ted's and know him - I urge you to get in touch and simply ask him about it. He wouldn't like his original design to be misrepresented by his friends as a straight-up copy or mold of an Otto Link mouthpiece. There was so much time, thought, and energy that went into this - He would be the first one to tell you this is not the case. Ask him about it next time you speak to him :)

I own several links. I also own 4 FocusTone handcrafted models - as well as the new Standard Model and the Resin Acoustimer model - and they are not Otto Links... They are great mouthpieces - and someone that likes the way a 60s Otto Link plays -- will like the FocusTone. But it is different.

Sorry to distract from the original topic -- just attempting to share my insight....
 
#228 ·
I had the opportunity to play through 8 or 9 of these, and thought I'd share my opinion.

The hype is deserved... these pieces have a wonderful sound, and not entirely like anything I've played before. I'm inexperienced with slants, but I've played on any number of modern link- and non-link based mpcs. There's something Morgan-esque about these new slants, in that they have a strong core and projection to them, wide dynamics and a depth of sound that doesn't thin in the upper register. However they have the brighter voice, color and richness you'd expect of a link. They scream beautifully. This was precisely what I was looking for, but these pieces may be more aggressive than some would like.

As far as quality control, every piece I played was good; however they were all different. Facing lengths felt different, articulation was easier on some, and in particular I noticed a HUGE difference moving from size to size, more so than I've noticed on many pieces. 7*s played much too bright and focused for me, 8*'s sounded great but required too much, and it took looking through a number of 8's to find the right medium. The only problem I saw consistently was that the tip rails tend to be too rounded and don't match the reed (that is, any reed). Didn't effect playability that I noticed.

But generally speaking, I don't understand how some folks try one mouthpiece in one size and then malign the entire brand... and the virtue of an inconsistent (yet consistently good) mouthpiece is that, if you try out a few, you can find one tailored to your needs.

Hope this helps.
 
#231 ·
I want to try one of these, now... hey Adam, if I buy one and don't like it, you have room in your schedule to fix it for me? :)

I play a JJ HR* on tenor right now and love it, but I would really like to have an actual Link at some point. I've been hesitant to buy a new one because of the horror stories I've heard about the consistency of their chambers and baffles-- as in, even if you get one blueprinted by a master, it could still be a dog. Sounds like these new Slants might be better......(?)
 
#232 ·
... but I would really like to have an actual Link at some point. I've been hesitant to buy a new one because of the horror stories I've heard about the consistency of their chambers and baffles-- as in, even if you get one blueprinted by a master, it could still be a dog. Sounds like these new Slants might be better......(?)
There isn't anything wrong with any of the current Babbitt pieces that a 'master' can't fix. If it's still a dog when he's done, he's doing it wrong. That said, I don't think the slightly older Babbitt pieces with the really soft, grainy, punky rubber that sands gray ever make great pieces, but they can be decent ones. When they're finished properly, the stock TE is a darker piece than the NVS, and both are rather darker and richer than your JJ.
 
#237 ·
Well there are few people on here that I'd be happier to defer to than you Adam. You've certainly spent more time with Ted than I, and you play a hell of a lot of saxophone. Let me just rephrase by saying if feel if you like old links, slants or STMs, you're bound to love Ted's pieces. I firmly believe he's a genius and craftsman of the highest order. And when I said "built off" a mold, I believe the focustone's certainly had a starting point from the otto link molds. That being said, there's no question that Ted has taken it to a new level, and that is why any link I've had - not matter how great it was in it's original form, every time Ted has laid his hands on one of links - it's always become better - way better.
 
#238 ·
when I said "built off" a mold, I believe the focustone's certainly had a starting point from the otto link molds.
Again - NO - the focus tone was designed using computer software... the shapes, contours, dimensions and DESIGN of the Focustone is different and unique. There was no molding or copying of an Otto Link involved in the realization and/or fabrication of Ted Klum's original design.
 
#239 ·
I just received a New hard rubber "New Vintage" slant Link for a reface job...

First impression at first glance: "Wow! ... Cool!"

From the techie perspective:
1. The table is stock link - with concavity or "french curve" that extends past the window to the facing break.
2. Piece is stamped 7* and measures .103
3. The facing curve is even from side-to-side but is very long in relation to the tip opening. There are also bumps in the curve that hinder reed vibration. In my opinion - the long facing on this piece favors the low registers, but the high register suffers (from spoon-keys up into the higher altissimo register)
4. The baffle is higher on one side (the left) than the other. But there is a lot more baffle material to work with, compared to the previous modern HR links.
5. The tip doesn't really match any cut of reeds - and will need to be reshaped.

All in all - this blank will be easier for this refacer to work on. More material in the right places. The material (however) is the same stuff all new Meyers and Otto Links are made of. I'm not a big fan of the material new "hard rubber" Babbitt stuff is made of. But for $160 - this mpc seems like a good deal.
 
#243 ·
The material (however) is the same stuff all new Meyers and Otto Links are made of.
So basically what you're saying here is that it's a piece of crap....

The box says "eburnated hard rubber" just like the old ones.
And the design is the same too and everything looks really cool so we can remember the old ones and everybody says it's "a good deal" because you get the same concept as the old ones but oops -without the material that the old ones were made of.

I thought cats were looking for something to play on rather than "a good deal"
Is it really a good deal when you have to have it redone anyway and when it's all said and done you pay almost three hundred bucks for a mouthpiece that's just another piece of plastic.

The cat here that plays hundred's of mouthpieces on his website even sent his to the best refacer (or one of the best-sorry) and still got out from under it financially speaking. And so for $160. bucks, plus shipping and handling-saxophone players all over the world can commemorate a time in history when the real deal was made and sold for 20 or 30 bucks including cap and ligature with a really attractive sovenier.
 
#244 ·
OK... Today, I've been listening to Jerry Bergonzi ("Lost in the Shuffle", and "Wiggy")... Jerry sounds great! ... and to my knowledge he is playing a modern JJ Babbitt rubber link on those recordings. I'm using this as an example of - "the painter not the brush" or the "player not the racquet" or the "the rider not the bicycle" ... Jerry through trial and error (playing through gear - just like the rest of us) decided that he liked the feel, sound, and response of a stock modern hard rubber link. There are a lot of guys using new modern mouthpieces.

Consider one side of this conversation being from that of the craftsman's perspective. How a material is to work with. How it cuts with the files, how it reacts to sandpaper - being buffed - etc... So expressing that I don't care for a material; this could be more than just how it sounds - but how it is to work with. How proud I am of the end result: both in playing, and the very superficial "how it looks", cosmetics side, etc, etc. etc...

So actually I'm not saying the mouthpiece is a piece of crap... For $160 a saxophone player is going to get a decent mouthpiece that will play out of the box. And if the player wants to have it modified - there is meat in the right places.

I am fortunate to have been able to pick up a few old links for a reasonable price, before the market went totally bonkers... Taking the "New Vintage" Slant and comparing it to an older tone-edge from the 60s: I personally prefer the older one. In my opinion what is the difference? It's the material.

Can you buy a new link, play all the notes on the horn, and make the gig? The answer is yes. You can buy a mouthpiece for $160 that will work. I'm not going to pay $1400 on eBay for an old Slant. Sorry. And I'm not going to encourage younger players that that's what they have to do either.

So if other players out there want an Otto Link and don't feel like paying over $1000 for a mouthpiece, and actually would like to pay less than $200... what I'm saying is that this isn't a bad deal - and they are finished better than the other stuff I've seen coming off the assembly line.
 
#247 ·
Very well said Adam. I completely agree with you on this. For players like Jerry equipment doesn't matter (well to certain logical extent of course) and like you said -"painter not the brush"... another example is George Garzone, I listened him playing Jody Jazz. But no matter what mouthpiece they used, it sounds amazing and mouthpiece doesn't change their distinctive voice in any way. So playing through gear is a great way of explaining this!:):):)

And these New Slant's are a very good pieces, and as you mentioned have enough materials in right places. It could be modified and voiced for personal taste (brighter-darker, more resistance-less, etc) or could be played right out of the box if liked. :)

As I mentioned before, the reason why I switched from Early Babbitt to New Slant is that I wanted to go for a more open piece. My EB is 7* but I really didn't wanted to touch it and leave it original. New Slant 8* got me the response I was looking for with RJS 4M. And I certainly enjoy my (modified) New Slant and like it more and more every day after spending time with it. :):):)
 
#245 ·
The biggest problem with the new vintage was the price hike. If they would have kept it at say $100 you wouldn't find people nit picking, but babbitt like everyone else in the world is raising the prices and turning the screw to see what people can take.

Personally I tried the new vintage and it was a good piece, but I'm not forking over $160 when I have a tone edge that I think sounds better. Of course the tone edge was faced by mojo.
 
#249 ·
I ended up selling mine. I thought it played great but I've been playing my Lamberson a ton lately and the beak on the slant just felt to high to the beak on the Lamberson which I really like. I'm even thinking of selling my EB now because it has the same beak but I want to make sure before I do that........
 
#252 ·
Howarth in London have an 8* in stock, I played it the other day, and it blew great (IMHO), despite what 'Dr G' might have to say - i'm used to a 6* hr link and put a (well-blown-in, admittedly) 3.5 reed on and it still blew effortlessly, with a nice amount of resistance and the dark sound anyone who plays a link presumably is after. Looked very odd though - the tip is way more curved than most pieces, and the reed didn't look like it fitted at all, but that didn't seem to matter. I had a similar experience (tip-wise) with a Freddie Gregory Hr piece lately, and it blew very well all the same. That said, it's hard to tell when you spend 10 mins in a live room with one of these things, but first impressions have been good.
 
#253 ·
Howarth in London have an 8* in stock, I played it the other day, and it blew great (IMHO), despite what 'Dr G'...
Slander and crossposting - you are due for a public spanking. :shock:

"Despite what Dr. G might say..."??? What? That your tone sucks? :evil:
 
#257 · (Edited)
Ahem. Excuse me?

I thought we'd settled our differences on a similar post, but clearly not - I was going on your clear and stated distaste for Babbitts, that's all, no slander intended. Apologies for cross-posting though, it was bound to end in tears.

Do feel free to visit my myspace page and let me know if you think my tone sucks.

x

:coffee:
 
#264 ·
I received three of the Otto Link 90th Anniversay New Vintage Slant mthpcs in 7* size.
Two of them play OK, but I think my Morgan HR plays better. There are significant differences in response, sound, amount of edge vs darkness, and playability between the 3 mthpcs. All three mouthpieces have a very badly shaped tip curve which does not match the shape of my Java tenor sax reeds. The curve sticks out much further than the tip of the reed. I might keep the best playing mthpc and send it off to be refaced. The tip curve definitely needs to be reshaped.
 
#268 ·
Hi Everyone!

I thought I will do a "quick" comparison after using my NVS for some time. So in this short playing I play my EB and my new vintage Slant. I hope you will like the short comparison, please write your opinions on which you like more.

If you ask me, I will tell you that I have never thought I will use anything than my old TRUSTED EB. I tried a lot of similar pieces but always went back to EB. But after using this NVS for some time I'm not looking back. Of course NVS is adjusted, not the same as it came from the box, to make it sound how it sounds now. And everybody's "better" definition is different, but for myself it's definitely better piece with more buzz, richer tone, more complex sound, louder and playing much easier.:):):)

Check out the latest clip : EBvsNVS

http://www.soundclick.com/zjazz
 
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