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Opening the throat: WOW!

13K views 53 replies 26 participants last post by  Bozman 
#1 ·
Well as usual I practiced long tones today, and I've felt a little down about my sound, it was lacking a sweetness and fullness and it started turning me off about practicing. So when I was practicing long tones, I opened my throat, like I was playing the low notes on a flute, and pushed lots of hot air through my horn. WOW what a difference, it was noticeably sweeter, especially on the high end, and it was fuller. :D Thank you long tones.
 
#4 ·
Life lesson #46 for saxmanGlen:

Keep your mind out of the gutter or you'll get footsteps all over your face.
 
#5 ·
Between three instructors this is a concept I'm trying to figure out. Don't get me wrong sight reading and rhythm are my biggest challenges. But for those songs I have down, it come to the sound, doesn't it.

I have better sound than most of my non-music major types. But I really like working the intonation, articulation, and air stream issues. Because that's where I'm at right now. And as far as I can tell, it isn't an intuitive thing.

As a 8 to 10 hour a day employee in a very demanding job, I'm just hoping it doesn't come down to spending 4 to 6 hours a day on an instrument. And because I play so many, I am kinda short-changing my favorite instruments.
 
#13 ·
As a 8 to 10 hour a day employee in a very demanding job, I'm just hoping it doesn't come down to spending 4 to 6 hours a day on an instrument.
Yes it comes down to this. I currently have to work an 8H day job 5 days a week and still can practice 4 hours a day most of the time. It's all motivation. Of course I have no life outside of that... I also bring my horn on the job so I can sneak in a 1/2 hour practice on my lunch break and I constantly have flash cards in my pocket so I take them out when we're not busy. By the way, you wouldn't believe how much you can get of a 1/2 hour of FOCUSED practice. I've never learned so much than now that I don't have the time.

Victor.
 
#7 ·
Thanks for your post Matsuo.
I too was practising long tones last night and gave the 'opening the throat' a go. I got that WOW factor too!! It did seem a sweeter, richer, rounder sound. Less sharp somehow. So, I'm really pleased you posted. I hate to make it further questionable- but do you imagine a ball in your mouth?? Seriously, I've heard some describe the technique as pretending to hold a tennis ball in your mouth? What's your technique?
 
#12 ·
Way, WAY back when, I had an instructor that explained it to me as blowing as if you are trying to warm up your hands on a cold day. Living in Colorado at the time made it easy for me to understand.

That was the simplest explanation I've ever heard and worked almost instantly for me. Frank Ballatore visited me earlier this year and made a comment about how full my "live" tone was compared to what ends up on my recordings. I attribute it to opening the throat with the technique described above.
 
#8 ·
Maybe you just have to think to get as much air in you as possible: diaphragm, chest, and then throat.

I don't know if my throat is open, I'll just experiment a little more untill I find it...

Edit:

Holy cow! I found something. If you try to do the above (the breathing thing), and blow with your diaphragm and chest (so your whole torso), subtones come out easier! This would mean that the airstream changes and allows you to play different "ranges" of your tone (more bass, less treble). I finally see what it means to play sax with your whole body, instead of just your sax. You gotta "think" big.

Edit 2:

If you just discovered this, don't overdo it, because apparantly your muscles wouldn't be trained enough and you could hurt yourself. Ouch!


:D
 
#14 ·
The open throat concept made a huge breakthrough in my tone as well. Years ago I was studying my LP jackets (ancient media before the mp3 and CD) and noticed that Dexter and Coltrane's necks looked huge and inflated. Other factors that helped were loose embrocure, taking in more mouthpiece, and overtone exercises.
 
#24 ·
I was watching the So What? YouTube video of Miles and Trane and both those guys' necks bulged when they blew. I figured it was just a muscular thing going on, but now that you mentioned it, it could have been the result of opening the throat to get more air. Interesting.
 
#20 ·
This must sound such a funny thread to an outsider now!

I tried the 'warm clay' method Saxmanglen and it seemed to work really well for me too. Thanks! You do have to concentrate to maintain it though, and I do find it's harder on the embouchure muscles. But, I guess, if you persist, your muscles will get used to it eventually. I just found I needed to take a few more breathers, until the muscle pangs subside.

Just must add magical pig how impressed I am with your practise routine especially with working all those hours a day too. I'm sure you will reep what you sow, and I think you must be sowing an awfully large crop, so good for you :D:D:D You are a great inspiration........

Oh, and don't worry about not having a social life. Who needs one of those?? We don't have one either - you'd think we would living in beautiful Switzerland. But my husband is badly allergic to cigarette smoke. I mean, it makes him vomit and really ill (nice) And since people smoke freely EVERYWHERE here at the moment (restaurants, malls, tea-room next to bakeries!!!) we don't go out either. Of course I can go out on my own.........speaking passable french............

The only place we can frequent is a take-away macdonalds! Honest. Oh, and the great outdoors, which luckily is fairly smoke-free, and also the hot-water baths. Must just add here, that we discovered that people inside the saunas and steam rooms were all NAKED!! Bit of a surprise when we wandered in :shock:
 
#21 ·
Hey Guys,

Please don't take this the wrong way, but find somebody that understands sound production and study with that person. Or... find some articles on the net about Joe Allard's approach/concepts to sound production or email one of his students. The information is out there.

I'm not wanting to be a jerk here but... Without the horn, try opening up your throat and then start talking. Observe what you sound like. Would you talk to your friends with this voice?

Your larynx is really important in the production of your sound. Unnecessary strain on it isn't going to help your situation.

Check out Jerry Bergonzi's lessons from Rico on you tube. He talks about emboucher too.

Keep it natural! Good luck!
 
#22 ·
Just a slight point of confusion here. People have talked about 'opening the throat' and seeing playing with large throats! I see there is another thread on the same line......


But, which part of the throat are we talking about?? Mouth area? Neck? Base of the jaw? It's just someone said here that they noticed players necks enlarged! And I don't see how that can be.

Just want to check I'm not getting confused. So, can someone clarify, which part is widening? Or opening?
 
#25 ·
I sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect it is not possible to literally expand your throat opening. It might feel that way, but what you are actually doing is increasing your air support, using your diaphram and probably certain facial and 'throat' muscles are involved as well.

Part of it might also be to relax your throat muscles, as kyotosessions implies.
 
#27 ·
Opening your throat helps but there is more to it than that. You have to find the right amount of open for each note. some parts of the horn need more focus to sound right and others need less. Its all about flexibility.
 
#28 ·
Well said. When voicing Altissimo properly, you can feel it in your throat as well. That was my epiphany when practicing Altissimo. Sound went from a sqeeky shreak (though "controlled") to full and clean. Wonderful!
 
#29 ·
Blow warm air. Think blowing down, towards your left thumb. Think 'hoe' in the back of your throat

The theory is that this will lower the back of the tongue, and raise the soft pallet. The 'warm air' not only opens the throat, but makes sure that the air comes in a large volume at a large pressure, at a relatively slow speed.

A closed 'throat' will produce a small volume of air at a greater speed.

Once you do enough long tone shedding, you will discover other subtle changes that you can make to the voicing to accentuate different harmonics.

Start out with that big sound, though.
 
#31 ·
Try yawning and then ask yourself if opening your throat is possible. Some students struggle with the "open throat" concept. I usually try this exercise when I find a student who is having problems with it. I get them to vocalise as in "growling". I start with singing, a recorder or even whistling if they can. I then move that to the sax. Once they get comfortable with the "growl", the throat concept usually becomes easier as I don't think it is possible to growl with a closed throat. Some don't get this either...
 
#32 ·
Yes, yawning, blowing warm air, etc will allow the most air to flow through, but I still wonder if the throat is literally expanding. Not that it really matters if you get the desired effect. Are there any anatomists or doctors here who can chime in on the idea that one can actually expand one's throat? I agree that you can lower the back of your tongue, which in effect "opens the throat."
 
#35 ·
That's funny that you have to be in a 'masochist state of mind'!! I can relate to that too. You kind of get into a 'workoholic' mode, where you constantly push yourself to achive your goals.
I like that state of mind for how much I achieve. But, maybe there's a natural ebb and flow to that state of mind. Maybe, you'll go back to it soon.....when you've had a rest :twisted:
 
#36 ·
Well, I still practice almost everyday for more than 4 hours but it's not as intense and some days it's hard to pick up the horn. When I have a day off from my day job I'll probably just do nothing the whole day :D. I guess you're right, general exhaustion both physical and mental must be the reason why I feel this way. It's happened to me before and it's always come back.

Victor.
 
#42 ·
Yea, just blow into your hand and feel the differenct in the amount of air pressure by forming your tounge into an arch. This arch is like the wing on an airplane and increases the air pressure. Practice blowing air and saying KEE without the mouthpiece to start. Then use the mouthpice (and horn) and concentrate on directing the air flow on the tip of the reed. Again, start with C#2 (one of the most difficult sounding notes) and work your way out (down and then above). Make that C# sound good first and move on to the others slowly. LISTEN!!!!!!!!! That's important.

Red
 
#43 ·
I don't pay attention to how I do it anymore. All I know is I have wonderful sounding saxes, with some tuning quirks, that I've been able to adjust to by various mouth and throat positions. The side affect, if you will, has been a better tone, better harmonics voicing, cleaner altissimo, and better low notes.

When I try to explain it to someone, I have to stop and think what I did to get there. Hard to type that since my sax(es) isn't in my mouth right now.
 
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