Transcribing

Dooser · 03-14-2003, 04:27 PM

How do you go about transcribing? Mainly if I'm planning on writing out the solo and keeping it, I'll do a rhythm sketch first, then figure out the notes, and finally and completed transcription. I was just curious how everyone else does it.

saxfella · 03-21-2003, 08:34 PM

I use blank paper, sketch out 8 blocks of four measures and use a letter - note tail system to save time. If poss, I write in the chord changes up above each measure then go for two or four bar 'phrases' at a time. Sing it first usually helps me, then using a keyboard, scribble it down.
Good idea to sketch out the rhythms BUT transcribing is something you don't want to take all day over (and it very easily can take a long time) as your ear gets tired after a while. And it gets BORING ! Use software like 'Slowdowner' to help. Try to choose solos that are within your capability to hear AND play ! My first transcription was Earl Bostic's 'Cherokee'. It took me a weekend but was great ! All the best !
Simon

Cameron Wigmore · 03-22-2003, 02:39 PM

If you really want to reap the rewards of transcribing I suggest that you memorize the entire solo on your main instrument, (sax -- I assume), first, before writing it down.

saxfella · 03-22-2003, 11:53 PM

Cam - 'memorise the entire solo' ? Wow! Why would you bother transcribing if you could do that already ? Or do you mean listen to the tune repeatedly so that you know where yer heading when you go to transcribe ? Also, I don't agree with learning it on sax first. I've found it easier to work things out on a piano / keyboard (esp chords) than jumping right in on sax.
Simon

JL · 03-23-2003, 12:57 AM

Probably everybody has their own favorite method. I agree with Cam; what works for me best is to learn a melody by ear on the sax without writing it down. I don't seem to retain it until I have worked it out this way. However, I don't usually try to learn entire solos, unless they are fairly short. What I prefer to do is learn the head, then pick out licks I like and improvise my own stuff from there. Sometimes I'll fool around with the chords on a piano, but I still have to get it all on the sax, by ear, for it to "stick." Each to their own.....

Dooser · 03-23-2003, 08:01 PM

but after doing the rhythm sketch, you should have a solo in your heard already.

saxfella · 03-25-2003, 11:41 AM

Er, are we all talking about transcribing as in 'converting into written form what we're hearing' ? Learning the melody without writing it down kinda departs from this definition. A transcription is more than just a rhythm sketch ! What's the harmony ? Where's the melody line ? You can learn ALOT more if you get the chords down too, because then you can start to see characteristic note choices of the player, devices used etc.
Simon

Cameron Wigmore · 06-03-2003, 02:00 AM

The transcriptions that I've learned the most from I've done by learning them note by note, bar by bar, phrase by phrase, chorus by chorus, untill I had the whole bloody thing memorized. Anything less and I don't really learn what's going on. I won't get the phrasing style, I won't get the little infldctions, etc. After I do this, THEN I'll write it out and analyze it. Maybe learn a few licks in most or all keys.

The other way I do it is to lift it phrase by phrase, memorizing for the day, but writing it down as I go. I learn less this way, but get through it way faster. Still a good way to do it, and there are other good ways too.

frankbiff · 06-03-2003, 02:44 AM

If you use a keyboard, you are not helping your sax playing when you transcribe. When you use your main instrument (sax) you are developing you ear in relation to where the notes are on the horn.

saxfella · 06-03-2003, 11:25 AM

Frank - a keyboard or chordal instrument can give you the harmonic context of the tune. For me, I find the keyboard easier to visualize than a sax finger board too. In fact, some of the most useful transcriptions I have done I have hummed / sung with the keyboard. Sure, playing them on sax is the aim, but other ways can help to get the sound in your ear before you play it on the sax.

saxfella · 06-03-2003, 11:32 AM

Cam - that must be pretty tough, learning by rote an entire piece, notes/rhythms/inflections... why not break it down into parts and record those ? I have always considered transcriptions as copying in written form, so that someone else could play what is written, possibly on another instrument. Rote learning is something different.

chayjazz · 06-05-2003, 03:28 AM

I don't feel as if there's only one correct way to transcribe. Do what works for you. I use my horn when I transcribe and I write the solos out, that's just the way I like to do it. I know other cats who transcribe totally by ear, only going to the piano to check a pitch every once in a while. The main thing is to do it. Transcribing teaches you some things that you can't learn from any book.

Tim Price · 06-12-2003, 03:33 PM

Transcriptions are used to develop the ears, derive technical exercises and for analysis to gain understanding of the theory and techniques to construct phrases.Solo transcription is the process of learning a solo by ear from a recording. It is often the crucial activity that bridges the gap between learning the theory of jazz, and developing the ability to create a jazz solo.
-The single most important aspect of learning to do anything is to have a clear mental picture of the objective, to visualize the end result before you start. If you don't know what you are trying to do, how will you know when you do it? With music, this means listening. Not just casual listening, but focused, intense listening. Listening to a piece of music over and over until you've absorbed every little nuance. That is what happens when you transcribe solos. As you replay a page, learning the notes, you also absorb the tone quality, time feel, inflections, vibrato etc. You hear the piano, b and drums-You may not be paying specific attention to them, but the information is going in at a subconscious level. In the future, when you play the solo by yourself, all the other parts will be there in your mind. If you play a solo out of a book, you hear the notes. When you transcribe it yourself, you hear the music. Start simple- try a Prez- Lester Young solo....like a blues. Maybe "D.B BLues" or a lil' ditty like that.
Books help you and so does your ear. I SAY- USE BOTH!!!
Check it ALL out- every lil' bit helps. It's to YOUR advantage.

devilsax · 07-25-2003, 01:57 AM

I am just beginning my journey of transcribing by ear melody heads and solos. I have a few under my belt. I'm wondering, from other people's experiences, whether it is better to learn a song (say "I Mean You" performed by Coleman Hawkins and others) and all the solos in all twelve keys - depth vs. learning it in the original key and going on to other stuff -breadth. I'm sure it goes without saying that it is good to at least learn the melody/head in all twelve keys, but what about the solo sections? That would entail a lot of time learning all the solos in each key. Is it worth the effort? Or would it be better spent going on to other material?

Razzy · 07-25-2003, 05:34 AM

I'd say don't worry about the transcribed solos in all keys; as long as you can see and hear how the phrases relate to the chords in terms of scales and steps, that's enough for that. It's better to get the "breadth" aspect in there.

HOWEVER you should save the DEPTH for the changes. Learn the changes in all 12 keys definitely, who knows when you'll see it again or just a slight variation on those changes. Chances are, often!

danmcb · 07-25-2003, 02:15 PM

something that helped me :

start by listening - a lot.

Don't try to wade through a whole bunch of solos. Pick out maybe 5 or 6 minutes of music, aim to work on it over a month or more.

Put that music onto MD, cassette or whatever, and listen to it whenever you can (I loop the tune(s) onto both sides of a C60 cassette and listen to that for a while every day).

Do that daily for at least 2 weeks or more, then start working on the solo with your horn. You should be able to sing most of the solo by now - in fact the thing may be driving you nuts. Picking out phrases and putting them together should be a lot easier - you'll be hearing things before you try to play them.

And think in terms of trying to absorb the whole tune, everything that happens- not just the sax solo.

For me, with this approach, it's the older players I'm working on - Prez, Hodges, Ben Webster, maybe some of the simpler Newk/Parker .... Trane and Cannonball are out of the window for a while yet ....

For me,the satisfaction of this approach is way above what comes from just slowing it down, writing out notes, and playing them back.

sjabariiii · 07-27-2003, 01:06 PM

Can anyone recommend a solo by George Coleman that is good for transcribing? Something not *too* hard?

shauli · 07-28-2003, 11:57 AM

A great solo of coleman that i've transcribed is from the live performances cd at Ronnie Scott's Club in London (2CD), i transcribed "Laura".

check it out.

sjabariiii · 07-28-2003, 07:22 PM

Cool, is that the one that's 23 minutes long? ha. I'll give it a whirl. at half speed

Wailin' · 07-29-2003, 06:31 PM

Here's an indispensable tool http://www.seventhstring.demon.co.uk/xscribe/

Those fast Charlie Parker tunes are easily analyzed...except it's still a huge challenge to get up to his speeds of 200-300 bpm after I've gotten the notes