Bilger - Morgan Mouthpiece

mangojango · 09-18-2003, 08:32 PM

I came across this piece in my "drawer of mouthpieces" and I'm not even terribly sure where it came from. It's a Bilger - Morgan hard rubber tenor piece. On the back (under the table) it has: 9492
5
L

It plays really nice, tip and rails are perfect, a little bit of ligature scratching but otherwise perfect. Anyone know the scoop on this? What's it worth? Anyone interested in it?

Mike Ruhl · 09-18-2003, 08:37 PM

They're very dark, classical mpcs, designed and produced by the late David Bilger, and finished by Ralph Morgan.

Yes, I'm interested in it. Please email me at mikeruhl@hotmail.com

**Sigmund451** · 09-18-2003, 09:24 PM

Also very interested Sigmund451@hotmail.com

Tharruff · 09-20-2003, 03:44 AM

I have a similar mouthpiece. A Bilger - Morgan marked: BMJ7 and 7170.

Can anyone tell me anything about it ?

I'm assuming that the 'J' indicates a 'Jazz' facing and that the '7' is the tip opening. I assume that the number 7170 is the serial number.

I bought it in the late '80's as I recall and it does not seem to work well with my Tenor which is a 1940 Balanced Action.

**Sigmund451** · 09-20-2003, 03:50 AM

From what I gather Bilgers are intermediate student mpcs after looking at their website. Maybe the one being sold here is better as it is associated with morgan....duno...but its not a morgan mold or material as far as I have been able to find out.

MojoBari · 09-20-2003, 01:10 PM

You can ask Ralph, but I believe they were all hand finished by Ralph Morgan. Bilger-Morgans were sold before the curent Bilgers and Morgans.

paulwl · 09-20-2003, 01:46 PM

Sig, where is Bilger's web page? I can't google it up (tho they're on weinermusic.com and a few other sites).

Bilgers used to be offered in 3 "lines": Gold Line, for dark classical; Silver Line, for jazz/studio playing; and Band Line, for student use. Maybe the Gold and Silver have been phased out. There was also the B92, which I think was meant for modern classical.

I have a Bilger-Morgan J6 tenor (like it a lot) and a Bilger B92 tenor (nice sound, but hard to control).

FYI, David Bilger, the saxophonist, passed in 1996. Another David Bilger is first trumpet in the Philadelphia Orchestra. Any relation? I don't know.

TenorX · 09-27-2003, 04:58 PM

I have a Bilger B92. It is the easiect-blowing mpce I've ever played, with a very complex tonal palette. It has just enough edge to play a lot of modern music. Very comfortable in my mouth. Just a couple minor problems: (1)The shank diameter is too big so it requires a thicker-than-normal cork on the neck, which makes changing to different pieces problematic.
(2)The piece is VERY short and it won't play in tune on my Mk.VI.
Except for those issues, it's perfect

**Sigmund451** · 09-29-2003, 06:13 PM

Mango, do you still have that mpc?
Sigmund451@hotmial.com

**Merlin** · 09-30-2003, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulwl

Sig, where is Bilger's web page? I can't google it up (tho they're on weinermusic.com and a few other sites).

I talked to Doreen Bilger a few weeks ago and she said they were moving toward selling the mouthpieces direct, via a new website. I don't think it's up yet.

FWIW, I have a Bilger Gold soprano piece that I love (that's the one I was playing at CSW, Paul.) I've owned two of the alto pieces, but liked my Morgan better.

I'd love to try a Bilger Gold tenor piece, as there are a few people who rave about them.

Mike Ruhl · 09-30-2003, 04:07 PM

[quote="Merlin"]

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulwl

I'd love to try a Bilger Gold tenor piece, as there are a few people who rave about them.

I tried one (and a Silver) a couple of years ago, but it was much darker than I was looking for at the time. I'd love to try one again now, too.

aanz · 10-02-2003, 11:31 PM

I sent Ralph a Bilger-Morgan 1C soprano to open up a few months ago. When I asked if he worked for them at some point, he replied "No, they worked for me". It seems like he was using them as a distributor for his mouthpieces. He also said they are the same mouthpieces.

Gayle Fredenburgh · 10-03-2003, 11:14 PM

I've had trouble getting the Bilger mouthpieces the last few years. I'm out of most now but used to stock them regularly. I have one Bilger Gold Tenor piece left. If you want it, let me know. I'm sending my last Silver one off with a horn next week.

Bilger and Morgan used to be in business together back in the 70s and 80s. Mouthpieces marked Bilger-Morgan are from this period. After a falling out, they went their separate ways. Their mouthpieces are quite similar, but Ralph offers a much larger variety in his line of jazz mouthpieces.

GaryLee · 10-05-2003, 06:18 PM

I have a Bilger-Morgan 6M tenor piece. It has a full rich sound and will take a lot of air with very little resistance.

I also have the same issues that TenorX mentioned - Hard to play in tune and a shank diameter too large for most neck corks.

I am not and expert but my guess would be that the 'L' on the 5L that mangojango has is either for "Large" chamber or "Long" facing.
Considering that my 6M has quite a long facing I would vote for chamber size which would be consistent with Morgan pieces.

Has anyone seen tip opening chart for Bilger-Morgan pieces? My piece looks to be a lot more open than a Morgan 6 so either it was opened up by a previous owner or the number systems are different.

MikeH · 12-12-2003, 11:06 PM

I made a trade with Mangojango for this Bilger-Morgan tenor mpc and have had it for a couple of months now. Since there seems to be some interest in these mpc's I will post my impressions for what they are worth. It is a large chamber mpc with a high baffle. The tip opening is .085 (actual measurement) so apparently a Bilger Morgan 5 is .085. This squares with Ralph Morgan's current facing #/tip opening scheme. The facing feels quite long but the L in 5L refers to the chamber size. I happen to favor long facings for a number of reasons and this mouthpiece has the advantages of a long facing in spades: rich sound, volume, ease of production of low notes, smooth transition form note to note, etc. A long facing can cause difficulties regarding playing in tune but this mpc poses no such problems. As far as tuning goes it tunes in exactly the same place on the neck cork as all my other tenor mpc's-right now, three Yani's. The bore is slightly on the large size but nowhere near large enough to cause problems with the neck cork mentioned by some in posts above. In terms of playing characteristics it is extremely free blowing and proects extraordinarily well for a large chamber hard rubber piece. The tonal quality is of course hard rubberish and dark but in terms of similarity to other makes it is probably most like an old Selmer hard rubber piece. All in all one of the greatest mpc's I have played in 50 years or so. And no, it is not for sale.

markm · 09-27-2008, 01:26 PM

I have a Bilger-Morgan 7M tenor piece (#8432) and was interested in knowing what years Dave Bilger and Ralph Morgan partnered. Dave Hoskins at JunkDude directed me to Erik Greiffenhagen who has been part of the Morgan team since 1983. I thought it would benefit the SOTW community to have this info. Erik’ G’ says:

“They began working together while Ralph was still with the Selmer Company under the table so to speak. I think Bilger- Morgan mpcs began as an official partnership around 1980 right after Ralph left Selmer. In short, Ralph refaced a mpc for Dave after a bet that he couldn't improve on one that Ron Caravan had made for Dave and I think Ralph won the bet. After that their relationship developed into a business partnership in which Dave played tested and contributed ideas in the design process and Ralph made the mouthpieces. Eventually they had a parting of ways over how the business should be run and parted company around 1990 as I recall. Not long after that Dave worked a deal with the Babbitt Company to produce his own line which was entirely made from commonly available Babbitt castings in Elkhart. Not long after that he got sick and passed away from blood cancer…
I know the serial #ing began at 7000 so yours would be from the first couple of years of production. probably made shortly after I started working here in 1983. …cheers erik”

Nice to get it straight from someone who's been making Morgan MPs for a quarter century.

**Rackety Sax** · 09-27-2008, 01:39 PM

Thanks for sharing that info, markm. David Bilger actually died at the beginning of 1997.

**rleitch** · 09-27-2008, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TenorX

I have a Bilger B92. It is the easiect-blowing mpce I've ever played, with a very complex tonal palette. It has just enough edge to play a lot of modern music. Very comfortable in my mouth. Just a couple minor problems: (1)The shank diameter is too big so it requires a thicker-than-normal cork on the neck, which makes changing to different pieces problematic.
(2)The piece is VERY short and it won't play in tune on my Mk.VI.
Except for those issues, it's perfect

Since we're bringing this very good thread back to life, I've also got one of these Bilger B92s and I agree. It's a fantastic piece: I don't know about "intermediate," but the finishing on mine is perfect, it seems like really nice rubber, and it plays great on my Martin. It's pretty much exactly as TenorX describes it: really nice and "Linkish," and with some edge.

Rory

ps. I'm not sure about short: mine's the exact same length as my NY Link.
pps. no neck cork problems with mine, either.
ppps. I attribute all my tuning problems to the thing that is attached to the thin end of the mouthpiece when I'm playing.

mangojango · 09-27-2008, 09:35 PM

Wow...this thread got necro-ed almost 5 years to the day! That was my first post.

Tharruff · 09-28-2008, 01:04 AM

And I have long since traded mine away after my post of 09-19-03 above...can't even remember who to, or what I traded for...but it is gone...