ROCK and ROLL Saxophone Style

[hgiles]

Can someone summarize the Rock and Roll saxophone style?

In my own mind I believe it's primarily liberal use of pentatonics and effects (growl, flutter, altissimo).

Is there something else I need to be thinking about? The reason I ask is because I cannot seem to get rock and roll lines to come out of my horn. What gives?

[Rahspeak]

I'm no great rocker by any means, but when I dive into that bag, I think "play the blues.....ok a little faster.....now louder.......maybe even a bit meaner". that's my approach to it...can't give you specific techniques because I really am just feeling the riff and not worrying about all that stuff when I blow with a rock band.

[Bill Mecca]

To Summarize: It's Rock and Roll!! Forget everything and just blow! Live in the moment, Speak from the heart, etc etc.

Trying to scientifically dissect a style will get you the parts, but it's the sum of those parts and that intrinsic little something that is difficult to put into words that will be missing.

What you say is true, add a bit of rhythmic content and you're close.It's more an attitude, and the best way to get it is to listen. Listen to Red Prysock, Lee Allen, Hal Singer, King Curtis, Jr. Walker, Clarence Clemons, Bobby Keys (Rolling Stones), Noble Watts, Big Jay McNeely, Joe Houston, Illinois Jacquet, etc etc etc...modern day practicioners... Sax Gordon, Greg Piccolo (His Homage CD) Jesse Scinto, and there are many others.

[gary]

Bill said it: attitude. But there are conventions to playing it. If you want a lesson in R&R licks, get a Sax Gordon recording. Just like jazz, it's an aural art. You learn it by listening and playing along. Not to overcomplicate it, I think if you got just the greatest hits of King Curtis, the greatest hits of Jr. Walker and one each of Red Prysok and Sil Austin and listened all the time and played along with them, that would answer most of your questions.

Although many great R&R/pop players can handle bird licks, playing outside etc, I think for your purposes get comfortable with playing pentatonics, blues licks and diatonically. Again, listen to the great players and maybe transcribe some stuff, Jr: Walker's pretty easy for a start. Other transcriptions are available at saxsolos.com.

[Neil Sharpe]

The term "Rock n' Roll" sax encompasses a variety of styles. Although some argue that the term should be applied primarly to the jump and swing blues styles from the 1940's, and the term "Rock" and "R & B" sax to what followed, it's fair to say that "Rock n' Roll" sax was first more commonly associated with the many, sax driven, charts hits from the 1950's.

However, even within the 50's there was no one dominant style. For example, compare the following:
-Lee Allen’s seminal solos on Little Richard’s album "Here’s Little Richard"including songs such as "Tutti Frutti", "Slippin’ and a Slidin’", and "The Girl Can’t Help It"
-Red Prysock’s "Handclapping",
-Herb Hardesty on Fats Domino’s "I’m Walking",
- King Curtis with The Coasters on "Yakety Yak" and "Charlie Brown",
-Plas Johnson on "Bony Moronie" by Larry Williams,
-Clifford Scott’s immortal solo on Bill Doggett’s "Honky Tonk Parts One and Two",
-Chuck Rio on "Tequila" by The Champs,
-Gil Bernal on "Rebel Rouser" by Duane Eddy.

Compare these styles to chart hits from the 1960’s and the evolution of the “soul” and “funk” styles
-J.C. Davis on "Night Train" by James Brown
-Gene Barge on "Dear Lady Twist" by Gary “U.S.” Bonds.
-Boots Randolph on Brenda Lee’s "Rockin’ Around the Christmas Tree"
-Denis Payton on "Can’t You See That She’s Mine" by the Dave Clark Five
-King Curtis’ “soul” sound on "Memphis Soul Stew", "Soul Twist", and "Soul Serenade"
-Junior Walker’s "Shotgun" and "What Does It Take",
-James Brown and sax player Maceo Parker’s “funk style” e.g. "Cold Sweat",

Also check out John Laughter’s great post listing the number of solos that have influenced him including hits from the 70's etc.
http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin...ad.php?t=15982

While all of this can give some oversight to the many different styles that have come to be grouped under the term “rock n’ roll” sax, it also can be somewhat confusing, (I know having once been through the same thing myself).

For a starting point, my suggestion would be to go back to the solos of:
Lee Allen on the album "Here’s Little Richard" as well as his own chart hit "Walking With Mr. Lee",
King Curtis’s highly influential style on The Coasters "Yakety Yak" and "Charlie Brown", and
Clifford Scott on Bill Doggetts’ "Honky Tonk Parts One and Two".
These should give you a good foundation both in terms of rhythm, riffs, and tone.

However, having said that, if there other songs and/or players, such as those outlined by John Laughter, you would like to emulate, then start there.

Transcripts of many of the above solos are available, or can be ordered, at www.saxsolos.com

[JL]

hgiles, also learn the basic 12 bar blues changes and the dominant chords in all keys. It's a bit more than just noodling on minor pentatonics and blues scales.

[Ruediger Kramer]

feel the blues and feel the rock ´n roll, that´s the way - a few hours ago i`ve made a "session" with my wife (she plays her Steinway - usually Beethoven and Schubert and Debussy and that kind of stuff - but together we get the feeling for R&B)

[58tenor]

hgiles, your query is interesting. I just played a rock gig last night. First in a while. So I thought about the essence of it. Harmonic simplicity. Use of all the tricks like growls,bends,altissimo,trills,etc. You can often refer to other pop melodies in a solo-always a crowd pleaser. Most of all, you just gotta DIG IN and play riffs and build excitement. If playing with electric guitarists, explain that they must really hang back during your solos. If I had to pick one guy to listen to it would be King Curtis, a monster example of kickass R&B sax. Have fun!

[Frank D]

Random thoughts on rock sax playing:

1. Listen to how guitar players solo, especially blues players. Phrasing, leave some space, tell a story. You can't just toss a few growls into a bebop solo and make if rock.

2. Choice of notes. Again listen to guitarists.

3. Get to the point! If you go back to that movie Sting did about his new band after the Police, he sums up the differece between jazz and rock: In jazz you can play an idea, develop it a little, drop that idea and try another one, develop that, leave it and go onto the next, etc. But in rock, you have to burn from the first bar.

Not to say either style is wrong. I love playing jazz, I love playing rock, but they're two different animals entirely.

[Dave dix]

In rock'n'roll it can also be what you leave out . There's nothing worst then a sax filling every gap possible in a solo. Listen to honky tone pt2 or charlie brown or lucille (3 different players and different styles ) and you will know what i mean. The gaps lets the rhythm flow thru.
Dave

[JL]

Originally Posted by Frank D

Listen to how guitar players solo, especially blues players. Phrasing, leave some space, tell a story.

Well, I'm not sure all that many guitarists will provide a good example of leaving space, lol, but it's true the better blues guitarists know how to phrase very well. Even better though, listen to the good blues singers and check out how they phrase. This will really help a lot.

[Dave dix]

The hardest part is finding a guitarist without a large ego and can use the volume pots correctly on his guitar
Dave

[Frank D]

Originally Posted by Dave dix

In rock'n'roll it can also be what you leave out .

That's the point I was trying to make. You don't have to fill up every space. I was referring to good guitarists, not the average hack. Buddy Guy, Albert Collins come to mind. Guys who play a phrase, buid on it, answer it back, etc.

[lotus_esprit5]

not to get too OT here, but Buddy Guy, holy crap. that guy is insane. if you ever get the chance to see him, definately go. he's nuts. has a really good sax player in his band too, or at least he did when i saw him about a year ago. that guy could play his *** off on the blues.

[Pete Thomas]

Originally Posted by hgiles

Can someone summarize the Rock and Roll saxophone style?

Here is an article I have that might answer a question or two:

http://www.petethomas.co.uk/rock-roll-saxophone.html

Hope it helps