REED MADNESS!!

FunkySax · 05-17-2003, 10:23 PM

Cmon people!!! Your drilling, burning and microwaving reeds. Some of you soak them in alcohol, man, thats for drinking. I even read a thread about a poor sap who thinks super glue improved his reed, and one about a guy who boils his poor reeds. Damn people get a grip and break your reeds in properly. Some reeds are destined for the scrap heap......I guess if you have to play DR REEDENSTEIN you could go ahead and torture those ones.

**Morry** · 05-18-2003, 03:45 AM

Someone had posted a message on here somewhere saying how Don Menza walked into some kind of sax symposium, took his horn out, licked the reed once, slapped it on and proceeded to play this killer 10 minute riff. When he finished, he said something like "Now, any questions about my warm up and reed prep routines?".

I'm with him. I put the new reed in my mouth while putting my sax together. I then put it on and play. If it plays a little harder or softer than expected, I adjust the placement on the mouthpiece. If it's completely unplayable, I throw it in the trash. When I'm done, the decent ones goe to the back of the rotation. I'm not going to let a $1.50 piece of wood rule my life. :-)

SopranoSue · 05-18-2003, 09:48 AM

"I'm not going to let a $1.50 piece of wood rule my life."

But, but, but... It DOES.

My analogy: Image sipping something through a straw rather than blowing out through a reed...

Great reed -- Like sucking air through the straw.

Good reed -- Like sucking water through the straw.

Mediocre reed -- Like sucking Jell-O through the straw.

Poor reed -- Like sucking yogurt through the straw.

Bad reed -- Like sucking mashed potatoes through a straw.

I can't imagine taking a bad reed out of the box and playing a 10 minute riff that brings the house down. BUT, then again, that's why I'm not a professional...

05-18-2003, 03:05 PM

You need professional help with your straw-sucking obsession!

When you start sucking creosote, it'll be too late!

My personal solution to the reed conundrum was to start with a CONSISTANT reed, straight from the box, which leaves out most cane, [ending up with a Bari H], and selecting the MOUTHPIECE to suit the REED! [a Meyer 7J]. I tried every tenor mouthpiece in the house until I found "the one!"

I have, over a period of time performed this ritual several times with similar results. I now carry Meyer 7J, 8J, and 9J with Bari (and Bari *) H M & S reeds.

Razzy · 05-18-2003, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morry

Someone had posted a message on here somewhere saying how Don Menza walked into some kind of sax symposium, took his horn out, licked the reed once, slapped it on and proceeded to play this killer 10 minute riff. When he finished, he said something like "Now, any questions about my warm up and reed prep routines?".

I'm with him. I put the new reed in my mouth while putting my sax together. I then put it on and play. If it plays a little harder or softer than expected, I adjust the placement on the mouthpiece. If it's completely unplayable, I throw it in the trash. When I'm done, the decent ones goe to the back of the rotation. I'm not going to let a $1.50 piece of wood rule my life. :-)

I use that Don Menza philosophy but I take it a step further. I play about 10 reeds at a time in rotation to keep them going for a much longer time. If I just play one reed straight ahead for days and days, it usually dies in a few days, because of my duration of playing and practicing. Rotation extends the life of each reed by a week or so. Then when I get a reed that sounds "dead", I usually take a razor to the heartwood and then sand it toward the tip with some fine sandpaper, and a lot of the time this gets the suckers playing. It's a crude but effective method. So it doesn't rule your life, it just takes up about 3 minutes of adjusting it, and a lot of the time, improves your life

But yes, I lick the reed a few times, put it on the mouthpiece, judge best where it should go on the piece, put on the ligature, tighten, and begin playing as I normally would. For me a new reed needs some "blowing through" before it can be practiced or performed on effectively. Then when I'm done, I wipe it off on my shirt and stick it in the <<flat-face la voz reedguard>> (thus far the only kind I've found that doesn't mold or cause them to go wavy; rippled la voz are more likely to cause waves and vandoren are more likely to cause mold, in my experience). It's very easy and I often wonder why people go through the trouble they do about reeds.

The biggest thing I found was that my good-sounding reed ratio improved as my embouchure improved and became correct. So, try that first. THEN you can try your hand at all the reed-adjusting business 8)

FunkySax · 05-18-2003, 09:07 PM

Ten gig playable reeds would be a lot for me to have ready. I usually have at least 2 that are good reeds, ready to gig on, then maybe 1 or 2 others that are close, but could be played. by the time the 2 good ones burn out, the 2 close ones are ready.

**gary** · 05-18-2003, 10:05 PM

Every full moon I go into the woods at midnight and soak my reeds in the water of an old tree stump while three naked hags incant in Gaelic. The reeds turn out great.

Only thing is, when I play them I gotta shave my face several times during a gig and I have this irresistable compulsion to howl during the rests.

05-22-2003, 07:43 PM

You need a Wolf Tayne mouthpiece to complete the ensemble!

**gary** · 05-22-2003, 10:57 PM

justbari · 05-23-2003, 03:24 AM

Quote:

"I'm not going to let a $1.50 piece of wood rule my life."

But if you play bari, it's closer to a $5 piece of wood... ouch!

Jazzophone · 05-23-2003, 11:06 PM

Then again, if you're a student, you take what you get. Even if the reed is pretty much just a crap old piece of wood and nothing else. Buying reeds for three woodwind instruments has basically got me down in a perpetual hole, especially since two of them are tenor and bari.

**Mark R** · 05-24-2003, 05:41 AM

I have a feeling Don Menza had probably played on that reed before. Even if he hadn't there is no need for massive preparation but it doesn't hurt to have 2 or 3 reed in good working order. Regardless of level of advancement as a saxophonist if for no other reason it feels much better to slap on a reed that you know you are not going to have struggles with vs surprising yourself and your listeners with one that is a dud , is too hard or soft.

Glad that method (if really true) works for Don Menza but let's face it most anyone I've worked with in any field that is a pro usually has a ritual of some sort and shows up prepared for the situation as opposed to it being a grab bag......I don't care how great a player is , if your reed isn't working well for you it will affect your performance, even if no one else knows. Also glad it worked for Don's 10 minute workout....I assure you if the reed sucks Don ain't gonna play on it for 3 sets straight.

electricninja · 09-11-2003, 07:08 AM

I got so sick and tired of being Herr Doktor Reedenstein and adjusting reed DNA with an electron microscope that I just said screw it and went to all BARI reeds. I don't care if it takes me 10 years to master them; at least I won't be nitpicking in frustration.

sabritas · 09-16-2003, 08:27 PM

I'm new to adjusti reeeds, but have had some early success..Yesterday got in the practice room at 6pm. My goal was to go through a box of med lavoz reeds and find and adjust four good reeds....then work on On Green Dolphin Street. By 9:30 I had gone through 6 new reeds. Two I played and adjusted and thought were great. Two others were good enough to begin with but I jacked them up. Two others were hopeless. By ten o'clock I was talking out loud to the reeds and cursing myself for wasting so much time. On my way home however I really felt I learned alot about reed working and I did have two great reeds going. I only hope I get quicker at adusting them. I store mine in the vandoren box. To prevent mold I wash it ou monthly and keep a fresh diseccant in it. Also placing the desecant under a lamp keeps it alive longer.

Teddy · 09-21-2003, 01:18 AM

I find that rotating a few good sounding reeds really works.The best way I have found to store them in between use is in a glass bottomed reed case.It was a little expensive (because it said "Selmer "on it )but if I take a good playing reed rinse it with clean water wipe it off and case it when I take it out again it plays just as well.....and seems to last longer

TheChristianSax · 10-16-2003, 07:39 PM

I felt compelled to write something here because of the frustration that reeds cause me. I believe a bad reed is a bad reed, no matter what you do to it. I believe this because of the fact that reeds are a plant product and can be cut to exact sizes and hardnesses (maybe), but you can't change the cell/fiber size and structure of a reed. I have not read anywhere as to what effect this structure has on the vibrating tendencies of a reed, but I am going to say it has a lot to do with it. In addition, does the angle at which the fibers run have anything to do with the vibrating characteristics? Meaning if the fibers are not running perfectly parallel from front to back, does it vibrate differently? Again, I believe it does have an effect, but how large? This is what I ponder when I spend $8.00 at the local music store only to get two reeds that do not work as I want them. I have tried some of the synthetics, but have found them to be too bright. I guess that I am really not looking for answers as much as I am venting in a positive manner. Can you tell I had a frustrating practice session this morning?

Sincerely,

Matt

KeithL · 10-18-2003, 03:58 AM

Hey Matt, you may want to try a Legere. A few years back I bought one of almost every synthetic out there and tried them all. The Legere is the darkest by a good margin.

As far as regular cane reeds go the thing that bugs me is the marketing these companies do - "hand select", "premium hand select", "super jazz ZZ premium top-secret handshake hand select" - it's absurd. And what are you getting if you don't buy the premium product? I'd like for someone from a reed company to drop by and explain to us exactly what goes on.

Outside of that my experience is that many of the reeds that come in a box are not ready to be used yet. I used to do what many of you have said, try a reed and if it doesn't play well, just toss it. However, what I found was if I open a box of reeds and just let them sit for a few months more of them seem to play then if I just rip the plastic off the box and tear into them. If you go through a lot of reeds or buying them 6 months in advance doesn't work for you, just take the ones that don't play well when you open the box, the ones you'd normally throw out, and put them on a shelf for a few months then come back to them. You have nothing to loose and there is no boiling, drilling, or controlled substances involved.

TheChristianSax · 10-18-2003, 05:42 PM

Thanks Keith,

Legere is actually the one synthetic that I have not tried. I have often wondered about them, but have decided against purchasing them in the past because of my experiences with synthetics. Woodwind & Brasswind has them at a much better price then my local music store, so I will give them a try. I think that Legere also has a return policy, but I am not sure if that is true.

As far as natural reeds go, I have begun sanding some of them, and have had a little luck. In fact, I did that the other day and the reed worked good on one mouthpiece, a vintage Berg hard rubber, but didn't really suit me on my hard rubber Link. Probably due to different facing lengths. I still think that internal structure is a factor that is variable enough to cause reeds of the "same" cut to act completely different. I think that you are right on about the marketing. I have had luck with even the cheapest Ricos.

Again, thanks for the info on the Legeres. I will give them a try.

Sincerely,

Matt

kaypea · 10-24-2003, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheChristianSax

I felt compelled to write something here because of the frustration that reeds cause me. I believe a bad reed is a bad reed, no matter what you do to it. I believe this because of the fact that reeds are a plant product and can be cut to exact sizes and hardnesses (maybe), but you can't change the cell/fiber size and structure of a reed. I have not read anywhere as to what effect this structure has on the vibrating tendencies of a reed, but I am going to say it has a lot to do with it. In addition, does the angle at which the fibers run have anything to do with the vibrating characteristics? Meaning if the fibers are not running perfectly parallel from front to back, does it vibrate differently? Again, I believe it does have an effect, but how large? This is what I ponder when I spend $8.00 at the local music store only to get two reeds that do not work as I want them. I have tried some of the synthetics, but have found them to be too bright. I guess that I am really not looking for answers as much as I am venting in a positive manner. Can you tell I had a frustrating practice session this morning?

Sincerely,

Matt

Yes,you are right-a bad reed is a bad reed.If the problem is just with the cut of a particular reed-if,say the reed sounds good,but its too hard in the lower register for example,you can make adjustments,etc.And as I am learning( I can be one of those who expect miracles right out of the box),you should break them in properly.We all have our own standards about what we like to sound like and what's comfortable to play on,but lets face it,alot of reeds just sound like crap and are going to sound like crap,no matter what you do to them.They are a plant product and you can't,in fact change the cell-fiber structure of a reed.Very well put.