Freddy Mitchell...unsung giant.

Tim Price · 05-01-2003, 01:51 PM

If we're talking about rock sax, you gotta check into Freddy Mitchell.
He was one of the greats.Look for the recordings below-
This man is legendary.His sound and ability to kick it up a notch is worth studying and transcribing.

LOOK FOR THESE :

Genius of Soul by Ray Charles

Honky Soul, Race Music, Hard Bop & Anachronic Jazz
by Gilbert Shelton

Swing It, Daddy-O! by Various Artists

Best of Ray Charles: The Atlantic Years

Frankie Lymon & the Teenagers (01/01/1994) by Frankie Lymon & the Teenagers

Big, Bad & Blue: The Big Joe Turner Anthology by Big Joe Turner

Blues + Jazz by Ray Charles

Atlantic Rhythm & Blues 1947-1974 [Box] by Various Artists

Soul on Fire: The Best of LaVern Baker (01/01/1991) by LaVern Baker

I'm curious if any of you guys are listening to him.
We also got to talk about these guys- J.T. Brown, Eddie Shaw, Maxwell Davis, Joe Houston, Earl Bostic, and Arnett Cobb if we're talkin' rock sax.
Lets get into them at some point, please 8)

HonkBopSax · 05-01-2003, 05:16 PM

My three faves there are Maxwell Davis, Arnett, and JT (the BIlly GOat!). JT is on a lot of Elmore James sides. maxwell did a lot of arranging, but I think the best example of his playing is on the T-Bone Walker 2CD set of his Imperial sides.

These days, I'm digging into the stuff on Sequel records out of London. Jimmy Wright, who could swing, stomp, honk, bop and blow unlike anybody i've ever heard...shame nobody else really talks about him. There's a live cut on 'Saxophony!' that is among the wildest, outside perhaps of some of Jay McNeely's sides, I've heard.

Thomsax · 05-25-2006, 08:09 AM

I listen to the same tunes over and over again. Yes, Freddie Mitchell is an often overlooked saxplayer when it comes to early rock and R&B players like Prysock, Taylor ... . I have the "The Derby" (Saxophonograph) record/vinyl and some other tunes. It´s hard to find recordings with Mitchell.

**Neil Sharpe** · 05-26-2006, 01:02 AM

Here's a link to a brief bio:
http://www.hoyhoy.com/freddie.htm

and a CD of early recordings:
http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/.../1949-1950.htm

Tim Price · 06-07-2006, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil Sharpe

Here's a link to a brief bio:
http://www.hoyhoy.com/freddie.htm

and a CD of early recordings:
http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/.../1949-1950.htm

Neil- Thanks for that.

Interesting QUOTE....As jobs got scarce in the 60's, he started driving a taxi cab, but continued to gig as "Taxi Mitchell," and died unknown.

Again- what a fate for a guy remembered so well by so many. Damn#$!@

Sometimes I wonder... the myriad elements of an integral embrace in this music are the charm. Freddy , even though I never saw him live, I heard and studied his playing hard, once I realized where his stuff was.
Hopefully, more will check him and remember him via these boards...I hope.
Guys like Freddy and players on thru Greg Piccolo etc have raised goose bumps, that took ones breath away and gave to both performers and audiences alike, a sense of belonging to something greater than oneself, transcending daily life.

I AM TOTALLY ALL ABOUT CATS LIKE THIS....
Players who lived for the SOUND and they could tell their personal stories from the heart,through their horns.

That's the key.......LIFE. Talkin' thru the music!!
A sonic atmosphere is steeped in a sense of creative possibility, which produces the most wondrous imagery for decades to come.

Bill Mecca · 06-07-2006, 09:14 PM

Thanks for that Neil.

I should send the webmaster an email though the back ground is cool and retro but it makes it hard to read for these old eyes.

it mentions a sax battle with King Curtis, but no mention of the tune, and it was funny about Rock and Roll boggie (Moondog's boogie) and how Freed dubbed his "vocals" onto the film. It is horrible, and out of sync.

Tim, what is it about guys like Freddie and the others that make what they do so unique? is it what they play, how they play it, the sound, or all of it wrapped up into one?

(kind of a rhetorical question, but these threads always seen to die)

Tim Price · 06-08-2006, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Mecca

snip //
Tim, what is it about guys like Freddie and the others that make what they do so unique? is it what they play, how they play it, the sound, or all of it wrapped up into one?

(kind of a rhetorical question, but these threads always seen to die)

Bill- in a word- INDIVIDUALITY.
The personal quality that will exist between Thinman and Freddy.
That high quality. CLASS.

These threads seem to die, I KNOW....makes me wonder why myself.
Shame cuz' these are the players thast carved a part for the tenor in music.

dekemcgee · 06-08-2006, 12:48 AM

Hey,

Whether you call it Rock n' Roll or Rhythm n' Blues Saxophone, these great players that you are talking about need to be heard, listened to and studied.

These cats were saxophone stylists...equally as important as Lester Young, Ben Webster or Coleman Hawkins who i listen to and love also...but that's just my opinion.

It's good to know that there are still players listening to and appreciating these legends.

Peace, Love,

Deke.

www.dekemcgee.com

Tim Price · 06-08-2006, 12:58 AM

[quote=dekemcgee]Hey,

Whether you call it Rock n' Roll or Rhythm n' Blues Saxophone, these great players that you are talking about need to be heard, listened to and studied.

These cats were saxophone stylists...equally as important as Lester Young, Ben Webster or Coleman Hawkins who i listen to and love also...but that's just my opinion.

It's good to know that there are still players listening to and appreciating these legends.

Peace, Love,

Deke.

DEKE- I totally agree...so true.

These guys are artists and legends.

dekemcgee · 06-08-2006, 01:16 AM

Hey again,

Tim...thanks for the kind words.

Somebody else that gets not a lot of credit is Purvis Henson (a monster) from the Buddy Johnson Orchestra...also The Buddy Johnson Orchestra itself...essential listening (schooling).

Peace, Love,

Deke.

LarryG · 06-08-2006, 01:59 AM

I will definitely check out Freddy Mitchell.

Hey Tim, do you know anything about the guy who did the solo on The Wanderer - Dion and the Belmonts- Buddy Lucas? He had such a distinct growl on that solo....man...I gotta play that with a band this Friday night that I am sittin in with, so I've been listening to it. Simple song, but who doesn't remember that solo? Even those who don't play the sax can sing it...

Thanks for these threads Tim, they are what keep me at SOTW.

Larry

**John Laughter** · 06-08-2006, 04:17 AM

Extensive listing and short bio;
http://koti.mbnet.fi/wdd/buddylucas.htm

Research shows;
THE SWITCH-A-ROO-HANK BALLARD AND THE MIDNIGHTERS-BUDDY LUCAS lead TENOR and HENRY MOORE 2nd TENOR
THE WANDERER-DION-BUDDY LUCAS-TENOR
DONNA THE PRIMA DONNA-DION-BUDDY LUCAS-TENOR
SEE SEE RIDER-LAVERN BAKER-BUDDY LUCAS-TENOR
RUNAROUND SUE-DION ? TENOR-Per Artie Kaplan, the tenor was most likely Buddy Lucas.

I wish we could find out more about his background.

**John Laughter** · 06-08-2006, 11:11 AM

Also interesting to note that the above site indicates that Buddy Lucas played on;
WHY DO FOOLS FALL IN LOVE-FRANKIE LYMON & THE TEENAGERS

However, most web sites credit Jimmy Wright for the solo.
http://home.att.net/~marvy42/Teenagers/teenagers.html
http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=2033
http://home.earthlink.net/~jaymar41/saxbreaks-a.html

Of course the web site does not suggest that Lucas played the "solo" but only that he "appeared on."

Tim Price · 06-08-2006, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dekemcgee

Hey again,

Tim...thanks for the kind words.

Somebody else that gets not a lot of credit is Purvis Henson (a monster) from the Buddy Johnson Orchestra...also The Buddy Johnson Orchestra itself...essential listening (schooling).

Peace, Love,

Deke.

Deke- you rock!!! Purvis was amazing...a real giant. Did you knoe Pervis in the 1970s and 1980s was a clerk at Mannys Music in NYC??
IMHO....Pervis WAS one of the MASTERS.

In the 70's , and I'm not to sure even before that......PERVIS was the
counter guy at Mannys in NYC .

A well dressed brother who was one helpful man to me when i was a young guy. .

Once I found out who HE was....
that this was THE MAN...Pervis
Henson...who played " Crazy ' Bout
A Saxophone "....I was awe struck.

Also confused as hell as WHY a player
of this stature had to have a day gig.
In 1973 I went to a jam session at the
Union in NYC and got my horn out and signed the list to play .
As I waited...
someone started the tune .." I'm in the Mood for Love" ...as a ballad. The
tenor was killin'....just as happening as Moody or King Curtis....maybe something like a cross of both- kinda. Purvis then played a Bird blues-
THAT WAS IT...

my horn went back in the case as did every other sax player in the room.
THE STUFF.....Pervis played was
ridiclous.WOW !!!!!!!!!!

The next day I intensionally went into Mannys to tell him how moved I was...this guy was world class.

Cats like Harold Vick and Harold Ousley told me about Pervis to. I
always wonder how a guy like Pervis got pushed to the side from
the biz.( WHEN I REALIZED, and after all I've seen- I'm not surprized at all. )

I bought my first Lawton from Pervis...for $ 43.50 in 1973.
He sold me reeds thru the years and I cherished just talkin' to him....to me
he was a STAR.

Greg Piccolo loves Pervis- I've heard Pic'play note for note Pervis solos.

My gut feeling is.... We live in an Mc Donalds society, instant gratification.
No more no less. It's pretty obivious. Support and committment is lacking.
These cats paid some harsh dues as people NOT just players, the ones that stuck to their guns nonetheless-their artistic legacy bears the fruit of thier commitment. But LOOK at the how they ended up- or had to survive.

Please don't anyone_read into_what I said, please...

As an artist and educator I've seen enought to make your hair jump and yell.
Oh boy.......
Let along today- thigs are so RAW in the business end that its a crime.
More should be said about " the unsung" and " the cats you never heard of" and..." The Forgotten Generation".

Support not lip service!! DO IT.
Check these guys out,, HEAR THEM.
And- next time you buy a CD get that Vincent Harring disc next time, go buy a Sonny Simmons CD and DIG HIM!!! Hear whats there that you haven't heard. < no offence to Vincent- I luv his stuff too !!

> But LISTEN to Sonny Simmons...Freddy or Clifford Scott. Look for George Braith...Tony Coe.

Your ears will thank you

HTH.

dekemcgee · 06-08-2006, 02:51 PM

Hey Tim,

What i would have given to have been able to chat to these cats, it's a shame some of them had to take up day jobs...but i suppose you need to eat. I would also have put my horn away at that jam session and sat back and learned.

When i first heard Purvis taking a solo on a Buddy Johnson LP it hit me right between the eyes, his sound and his melodies...for me the two most important ingredients in playing.

Nice chatting to you Tim...speak to you soon.

All the best from Scotland,

Deke.

JL · 06-08-2006, 05:58 PM

Man, I listen to as many of these jump/early R&R sax players as I can find. And yes, they are the real forgotten generation. I have a theory about what happened to them. In the late 40's, early 50's, "race records" circulated mainly in the black community and got almost NO airplay on the radio. So when guys like Elvis Presley and other white rock & rollers picked up on that sound (and you sure can't blame them for doing so!!) THEY got all the airplay and notoriety. At the same time, the electric guitar was coming on the scene and the sax got dropped to some extent, even though the sax was the predominant instrument in this music to begin with. Only a few sax players bridged the gap and gained some fame (King Curtis, Jr. Walker). The rest were left in obscurity, even to this day, except among those few afficianados like us. Even a lot of present day sax players are unaware of the early R&B sax players. They know the jazz giants like 'Trane and Bird, but not the blues sax players.

Most blues guitarists today are not aware of where this music comes from, either. There are exceptions, though. A couple of the best blues guitarists I know listen to King Curtis, Sam Taylor, Clifford Scott, etc. and actually pick up on their licks, just like the first electric guitarists did. And these guys really appreciate and love playing with any sax player who can come anywhere close to that "sound."

We owe a huge debt to those early rockin' sax players, even those among us who aren't aware of them.

dekemcgee · 06-09-2006, 01:48 AM

JL,

Right on the money.

peace, love,

deke.

www.dekemcgee.com

Bob M · 07-06-2006, 05:02 AM

I was at the Rock Hall last Friday. In a section about called the "Architects of Rock" there was some great old footage about Alan Freed. At one point he introduces "that great tenor-man Freddy Mitchell to play "Rock n Roll Boogie"". It's "Moondog Boogie" (Moondog was the name of Freed's show) and Mitchell's tenor section-mate is none other than "Big" Al Sears. GREAT STUFF

BTW, for all you gearheads out there (and who among us isn't) Freddy's horn appeared to be a Chu.

**John Laughter** · 07-06-2006, 10:47 AM

Quote:

We owe a huge debt to those early rockin' sax players, even those among us who aren't aware of them.

Please send for a free 67 page list of Top 40 UK and US hits from 1955-2005 to learn the names of the early R&R and R&B sax players. JSAXL@aol.com

Also, for an interesting example of some obvious historical style contrasts, there were several recordings which caused discussion, and controversy, among musicians. Pat Boone “covered” the following R&B hits; Fats Domino’s Ain’t That A Shame, The El Dorados’ At My Front Door (Crazy Little Mama), Little Richard’s Tutti Frutti and Long Tall Sally. Download the original recordings and take a listen and compare the lead vocal, session musicians, and especially the sax solos, between the different versions of Ain’t That A Shame, Tutti Frutti and Long Tall Sally.