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Mark VII

34K views 158 replies 53 participants last post by  Kneejerk 
#1 ·
This is my first visit to the Selmer section of SotW, reason being I didn't ever envisage owning one.

That has now been revised, I'm looking to upgrade to a better horn and although I will never be able to afford a Mark VI a friend allowed me a short session on his Mark VII tenor, they do not get the kudos of the VI and I have heard quite a few people say the VII was Selmers big mistake. I might have just played a good one but I loved it!

Where are all the VII's, very few on Ebay, same on SotW marketplace, if they are so bad why are there not lots for sale?

If I wanted to buy one how much do they come in at, I'm trying to work out if I could afford one, I don't want a looker I want a player that will help me through the rest of my grades, light action, good intonation.

Any observations would be gratefully received.

Thanks
 
#2 ·
The Mark VII is a much maligned and very under rated horn. There are many excellent ones out there. The cost should be 1/2 or less of the Mark 6,
depending on condition. Most had no engraving, but a few did. The sound is different than the earlier Mark 6's and many players did not like the oversize pinky keys. The change was a marketing error by Selmer. The horns themselves are just fine, if you like them. I owned one for about 5 years and thought it was an excellent Tenor.
 
#3 ·
An aquaintance of mine has a VII. She saw my VI and was like "wow I wish I had your horn." I traded with her for a short while... I had never played a VII myself. Her sax was every bit as good as mine and vice versa. She was actually tripping over the VIs ergos because she is used to the VII. In short, no matter what you have, just enjoy it.

She still wanted my VI, but it was definitely just because of the hype.
 
#6 ·
It's all a matter of taste. In my experience I've noticed that people who are used to the feeling and sound of a VI tend to shy away from the VII. (I'm that way also... I couldn't get used to the feeling of the action- holding the horn felt a little left-handed for me). Others seem to be perfectly content and happy with it.

Like all Selmers, some in the series are made well and others not so well. If you find one that fits you, get it. Never compromise sound for anything. If you pick one up and it has a great sound, it's worth it right there! It's really only a matter of time until the price on them go up as well. You'll certainly never lose money on it.

Best of luck
 
#11 ·
I couldn't get used to the feeling of the action- holding the horn felt a little left-handed for me.
How interesting! I've never heard/read anyone say that about the VII. Can you explain more what you mean? Do you literally mean "left-handed" or were you just using "left-handed" as synonymous with "felt very odd"? The reason I ask is because I happen to be left-handed, so your comment caught my eye.

Also (this isn't related to your comments), I'm always amused when I hear people talk about loving the VII because they have big hands, or hating the VII because they have small hands. I love my VII, and I have quite small hands. Playing my son's YamaVito while my VII was in the shop felt really strange - I kept overreaching the low C key by about half an inch.
 
#7 ·
I recently sold a VII tenor that I bought brand new in 1976. I routinely switched back and forth between my VI tenors and the VII mood dependent. I always liked the VII equally as much as my VI's. In some ways the VII is a better horn, more powerful, better intonation and built like a tank. Except for a minor few exceptions the only players that really bash VII tenors are people who've only tried them or are repeating an untrue myth.
If you find one that you like don't hesitate to buy it because the prices(justifiably so) are rising quickly.
 
#8 ·
The Mark VII ergonomic difference is due to the input of Frederick Hemke. He's a big guy with big hands, and was key (no pun intended) in it's design. I personally find the altos way more comfortable than the VIs, as my hands are kinda big too. In a perfect world, I'd get rid of my dainty little Yamaha alto (it feels so tiny to me) and get a VII. Some people say the lower register is boomy; but I think it's great on alto. On tenor, it would probably pair very nicely with a short facing mouthpiece.

You mentioned playing your friend's tenor. Is that what you're looking for?
 
#9 ·
I believe the VII got its bad rep mostly because it happened to be the horn that followed the VI. Having owned VI's and VII's, I completely agree with Thomas' comments above.
 
#10 ·
yep, VIIs are fantastic.
the reason that people poo pooed them is because selmer claimed (or perhaps implied is a better word)that they were the new improved version of the VI by calling it the VII, and it is a different horn. not better (which is what people first notices) but not worse (as people are now noticing)
 
#12 · (Edited)
You mentioned playing your friend's tenor. Is that what you're looking for?[/QUOTE]

Yes, it is a tenor I'm thinking about, even though I'm not a big person it seemed to sit nicely under my fingers, I think I have fairly large hands, certainly compared to another friend who favours a 6.

I did a bit of a phone poll around my local dealers, none had a 7 but said they average at about £1500 GBP, so I guess $2000+ US, that would be with a warranty I suppose.

Thanks very much for all the input so far, very encouraging.

sorry I appear to have got the quote bit wrong!!!
 
#13 ·
I did a bit of a phone poll around my local dealers, none had a 7 but said they average at about £1500 GBP, so I guess $2000+ US, that would be with a warranty I suppose.
I really haven't seen many VII tenors going for less than $2,500 for some time now. They really are good horns too. If you're looking to save some money, it's still possible to find a Super Action 80 for less than $2,000. Though I have to admit that they are starting to become rare finds as well.
 
#14 ·
in my opinion people just misunderstand the mk vii.
Mk vii was designed to be and makes a great r&b and rock and roll horn.
with a modern type mouthpiece they are true screamers with a good even super loud and strong tone.
Back in the 70s you have to remember almost all jazz had become fusion and electric and loud and saxophone playes were all playing really loud and bright setups.
for this reason mk vii is not a good jazz horn in my opinion and even when greats like joe henderson played one in my opinion it sounded awfull and you could hardly stannd listening to it. When you try to play jazz on them the high notes make this horrible thin whining noise that is seriously unmusical and ugly.

so if you want a good sounding even tone with like an otto link mouthpiece or something similar to 50s blue note type sound mk vii is a terrible choice and this is the reason for its somewhat deserved reputation.

i have one i played for years touring with a blues/soul/r&b/fusion/funk/rock band however and consider it far superiour to the great and more expensive horns from the 50s and 60s for that purpose.
 
#37 ·
When you try to play jazz on them the high notes make this horrible thin whining noise that is seriously unmusical and ugly.
Don't take this the wrong way, but I might suggest replacing 'you' with 'I' in this situation, since you are reflecting your own subjective experience.
 
#15 ·
I assure you that Fred Hemke did NOT have R&B in mind when he helped design the MkVII.
 
#17 ·
I guess you guys have never heard the rare recordings Hemke did with Coltrane in the mid 1960s, shortly before Trane's death?

And what about that classic LP, "Hemke and Sanborn Live at the Apollo: A Tribute to the Pioneers of Funk"?

Let's not even go into Hemke's vast body of studio work, first supporting Earth, Wind, and Fire, and later playing on recordings with everyone from Charo to Janet Jackson.
 
#21 ·
Yogi said it best, "it's like deja vu all..."

Sigh....

We really need a rep from Selmer to just come to the board, and answer like 100 questions to be posted as a sticky for us to reference. Of course if Fred himself came here and put it to rest it wouldn't be put to rest would it?
 
#22 ·
Yes, since I actually had lunch with Dr. Hemke (with a group of half a dozen students) back in 1974 when he was at my uni for a master class, and the subject of discussion at the table was design of the 'new' MkVII.

I particularly remember talking about the size of the spatulas.

There was also talk about a third octave key. Dr. Hemke waved that away by saying he didn't need a third octave key.
 
#25 ·
Yes, since I actually had lunch with Dr. Hemke (with a group of half a dozen students) back in 1974 when he was at my uni for a master class, and the subject of discussion at the table was design of the 'new' MkVII.

I particularly remember talking about the size of the spatulas.

There was also talk about a third octave key. Dr. Hemke waved that away by saying he didn't need a third octave key.
I've heard the table keys are larger because his hands are larger, never met the man so I'm never actually heard proof of this design item.

That must have been one lunch to remember.
 
#23 ·
I had the honor of having a long conversation with Sonny Stitt back in the 70's, shortley before he died. I had just bought my Mark VII. Sonny had both his Alto and Tenor 6's stolen from a hotel lobby in DC, and he was playing his new Mk 7's that night. He'd had them for a few months. He loved them. He thought they were great horns. And he sounded great on them too.
 
#30 ·
Once again thanks to all for contributions, I have arranged to test play a Mark VII and a couple of Super Action 80's, looking forward to it very much, I will post my impressions if anyone is interested. Thanks for the heads up to Ebay but would not want to spend so much money without seeing and testing first.
 
#31 ·
So you're thinking of picking up a MK VII? You'd be crazy not to!!
Back in the early 70's when I was in high school, playing at a school whose claim to fame was an outstanding music program, every senior sax at the school was a Selmer Mk VI, tenor and alto. I played tenor and that was the horn I learned to play well on, and craved for my own. I ordered one in 1974, and while promised a VI, took delivery of a VII. The story I got from Selmer was that they ran out of portions of the keywork for the VI's, but still had bodies, bells and some linkages, and pearl keys. So the horn I received is a hybrid of the VI and the VII, with the bigger spatula keys on the low C and the spatula, and mounted on a MK VI tube and bell. It also has the High F#
which wasn't available on the VI. I know they were just learning to mount that key, because the body tube has a slight discoloration where the factory tech drew the tone hole in the wrong place, filled it in, and got it right the second time. And by the way, it never affected the sound or playing of the instrument. Totally seamless correction, but they gave me a discount due to the slightly different color of the lacquer. The neck is a MK VII neck, clearly labeled with an M with a 7 through the center of it. The neck is at a slightly more oblique angle to the player, and doesn't lend itself quite as nicely to playing standing. And unlike many of the VII's, this horn has beautiful engraving. But this horn is an awesome player, very free-blowing and easy to keep in line. No tuning issues at all. Didn't notice any real differences between the two instruments sound-wise, high end is full and altissimo is rich too. Getting used to the bigger keys for the pinkies were the only real adjustment I had to make. Mind you at this point, I can barely remember what a VI felt like in my hands, although I get flashbacks holding my 82Z alto; the keywork feels familiar to me and I've only had it for a short time. But to those people who would slay the VII out of hand, I can only say that like most instruments to come out of the Selmer factory, there were good, bad and awesome ones...ask anyone who's ever been stuck with a VI that doesn't play in tune...and I lucked out on my VII. I wouldn't trade it for a VI nor would I take less cash than a VI sells for. Selmer certainly didn't miss the mark on this instrument, they just didn't market it right. Nothing can replace the VI, but other instruments can play just as well, and I happen to own one of them.
 
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