Consignment Practice - Unethical, Common?

**Rackety Sax** · 07-12-2008, 07:03 PM

I think the answer to the first question is yes, I can't say about the second question. A seller brings in a horn to sell on consignment and negotiates the terms with the dealer. The dealer finds a buyer, completes the sale, and pays off the seller as agreed. But there's a catch. Sticking in the case was a nice vintage mouthpiece, and that finds its way onto the dealer's shelf. His "consignment percentage" on the mouthpiece is 100%, since as far as the seller knows the mouthpiece sold along with the horn.

If you are selling a horn on consignment, make separate arrangements for any mouthpiece that may accompany the horn - keep it, sell it on your own, or negotiate a separate consignment deal.

**CiaranAudio** · 07-12-2008, 08:44 PM

Sorry, is there a question in there?

Thread title implies so...

**hakukani** · 07-12-2008, 08:48 PM

Kind of scummy to sell the mouthpiece separately, without telling the owner, IMO.

**playitfunky** · 07-12-2008, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by hakukani

Kind of scummy to sell the mouthpiece separately, without telling the owner, IMO.

I disagree you make a deal for the whole package on a set price, the store owner should be able to haggle any way possible to make a deal. That's commerce. Don't be upset because you made a bad business decision not realizing horns and mouthpieces often get sold apart.

I know a guy who had a pulled down neck on a MKVI. He got it fixed. Then he also purchused a Ponzol neck. He sold it on consignment with both necks coming with horn. The Shop threw the repaired neck on the Sax and sold the Ponzol seperate. Hey why not in the end my friend got the price he asked for. The shop made a profit hopefully. And also 2 cutomers got something they were looking for. What's wrong with that? Nothing IMO.

**Pete Thomas** · 07-12-2008, 08:56 PM

Not unethical, illegal. The dealer is handed the whole package to sell. If he/she steals the mouthpiece and sells it separately it's worse than scummy.

**Fred** · 07-12-2008, 09:03 PM

And IMHO, it's always unwise on the part of the owner to make a nice vintage mouthpiece a part of the package deal. Unless I'm selling a beginner sax, my sales never include a mouthpiece. For a beginner, it's either a Yam 4C or a C* depending on circumstances and what I have on hand.

**Enviroguy** · 07-12-2008, 09:28 PM

Yep,

There's always more money to make by selling it separately. The only exception to this I've seen is when selling a "middle of the road" instrument. I've seen late-model 10M's sell a whole lot better on eBay when accompanied by a Link, Berg or the like. The "pro" mouthpiece seems to make the horn seem more legitimate to some buyers.

But to me, the store dealer, in the story above, is commiting a crime if he doesn't give the owner the agreed share of money from the sale of the mouthpiece.

**playitfunky** · 07-12-2008, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by Enviroguy

Yep,

There's always more money to make by selling it separately. The only exception to this I've seen is when selling a "middle of the road" instrument. I've seen late-model 10M's sell a whole lot better on eBay when accompanied by a Link, Berg or the like. The "pro" mouthpiece seems to make the horn seem more legitimate to some buyers.

But to me, the store dealer, in the story above, is commiting a crime if he doesn't give the owner the agreed share of money from the sale of the mouthpiece.

yeah but if you gave the sax and the mouthpiece together and said I want for example 2000.00 dollars.

The store owner can do what he needs to make more than 2 grand to make a profit. If that means selling the parts off and giving you 2 grand and he makes 500 then so be it. That's commerce not law breaking.

**hakukani** · 07-12-2008, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by playitfunky

yeah but if you gave the sax and the mouthpiece together and said I want for example 2000.00 dollars.

The store owner can do what he needs to make more than 2 grand to make a profit. If that means selling the parts off and giving you 2 grand and he makes 500 then so be it. That's commerce not law breaking.

Then why doesn't the store owner just buy the horn for 2 grand? Then the horn owner gets what he wants, and the store owner can do what he wants to with the horn.

If it's on consignment, the store owner gets to keep the 'float'.

**bstrom** · 07-12-2008, 09:48 PM

If the guy was cool, he would say " Hey we can sell this mouthpiece separately for more money, here's what I think it's worth and here's what my percentage will be." But that's hardly ever the real world in retail unfortunately. I've worked for them, it's a tough racket filled with unscrupulous individuals trying to survive, in my experience. Not all of them by any means, but alot.

**saxjd** · 07-12-2008, 10:31 PM

Depends on the deal. If the consignment seller is to get a percentage, then he gets only that percentage on the consigned property. If his commission is 20%, the owner gets 80% of the price including whatever the mp sells for. On the other hand, if it is a fixed price, then the dealer can sell for more or less. I think most of these deals are on %. In that case, taking the mp for himself, the dealer is commiting theft.

**Graftonsax** · 07-12-2008, 11:18 PM

For me if I was to go into a store and try out a used horn, the one with the nice vintage mouthpiece will play into my plan on if I'm on the fence to buy the horn. If the store is going to do that they run into the problem of selling the mouthpiece before the sax, and lets say either the horn doesn't sell or the original owner suddenly decides he wants to keep the horn. Either way he comes to claim and no mouthpiece. So obviously the shop can sell the mouthpiece after they sell the horn. Well not having the mouthpiece in the case will hurt the chances of a sale, because obviously the seller wants a fair price for the horn, if he was unloading it quickly the store would buy it from him in the first place.

**Rackety Sax** · 07-12-2008, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by saxjd

Depends on the deal. If the consignment seller is to get a percentage, then he gets only that percentage on the consigned property. If his commission is 20%, the owner gets 80% of the price including whatever the mp sells for. On the other hand, if it is a fixed price, then the dealer can sell for more or less. I think most of these deals are on %. In that case, taking the mp for himself, the dealer is commiting theft.

Yeah, in answer to playitfunky, the particular arrangements do matter. If it's a percentage deal and the mouthpiece is sold separately with a % going to the seller, then in my opinion it's unethical (and as some suggested, it may be outright theft). If the consignment deal is "Here's a package, I want $2000 when it sells" and the dealer decides to break up a mouthpiece and horn to make more money, that's a different story.

Unfortunately, it's probably the ill-informed seller who just assumes the mouthpiece is part of the package and doesn't realized that in some instances the mouthpiece could be worth more than the horn who is going to most easily get ripped off.

**freeflier** · 07-13-2008, 02:32 AM

Regardless of whether the commission deal was for a percentage or a fixed price, the dealer is a thief. Even if the arrangement was to sell the sax and mpc for a fixed price and a fixed commission, the package might have sold faster (and the seller would have got his money sooner) had the dealer left the mpc with the sax.

The dealer could have bought the sax and mpc from the seller outright, then sold them separately on his own - that would be ok. But he chose not to do that. What would he have done if the sax didn't sell in a few weeks? Tell the seller, sorry, no one's buying, maybe you should lower the price?

No, the dealer does NOT "get to do what he wants" with a consignment sale, as he does not own the merchandise. If he wants to do what he wants with the sax, he has to buy it first.