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Why to upgrade?

2K views 15 replies 9 participants last post by  stevesklar 
#1 · (Edited)
Ok so I have had my first wood clarinet I have ever owned now for about 2 years. I have spend what I would consider allot of time really learning the clarinet. I have done 1 and a half seasons in community bands on clarinet and have joined a Ballroom band (pre-big band) that has some crazy clarinet parts. Well I have my Normandy 10 clarinet which is a very nice wood clarinet by the now defunk company Normandy that was later bought out by Leblanc. It has Nickel Silver keys but I have had it's tension corks all replaced and several pads replace. It plays very nicely now. It's got some years on it, built in 1967. No body crack, some nicks though.

That alot of background but why? See the title of the thread, why to upgrade?

In saxophone I know why you upgrade to a point, Saxophones really benefit from being new or being significantly overhauled. The whole horn just plays better when the pads seal from top to bottom, esp the lower pads and the palm keys. Also you want balanced action. Low notes need to have the same tension as high notes. That way there is no noticeable difference in effort between octaves. But what will I gain from a better clarinet? I admit I have never play tested clarinets. Other then the horns in my hands I don't know what's better. I can tell you when I went from a plastic clarinet to a wood one I was very much impressed. The lower end just had a much richer tone. A nice lush woody resonance that wasn't present on my old plastic horn.

One thing I have never done well is know when to upgrade. I usually will upgrade after I should have, and in the past it has been monetary motivated. But now I have a few more bucks in my pocket and clarinet, even nice ones, are overall cheap.

So other then Silver Keys, what's going to change? As of lately I have had a itchy GAS and I think the clarinet upgrade would be the smartest, but people are welcome to chime in on any thing they want to talk about. Discuss.
 
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#2 ·
Think French Vito to a Silversonic King. The keywork might be similar, but the experience is very different.
 
#3 ·
I guess that's my question, with the clarinet having so few actually buttons/keys, I know my fingers are going to cover the holes differently so what's going to change?
 
#4 ·
The sound. It is subtle, but when you hear it you will understand. Roger has written pretty extensively on this subject. Look in this area for his posts.
 
#5 ·
Well let me throw out the 2 models I was thinking about. Mind you I like the American style big tone. I was thinking about a Noblet 45 or a Buffet E11 as an upgrade? Any other suggestions? Was thinking of a pricepoint of around 400 to 600 US.
 
#6 ·
Your two best upgrades are:
1. Teacher.
2. Mouthpiece.

and the two most cost effective spends.

1. Practice.
2. Get the existing instrument serviced/adjusted.

If you're not absolutely certain of what you want - a fun thing to do is to visit a store with a large selection of horns and or mouthpieces and experiment.

Try an R13 - Try a B&H 1010 - Try an E11 - try a variety of Yams - an ultra cheap chinese horn...

Spend some time learning where you want to go.
 
#7 ·
Radjammin,

DrougR's advice is pretty much what I'd say.

Having a good clarinet teacher, lots of practice, and playing clarinet in an ensemble (such as a good community band or symphonic wind ensemble) is important for developing the fundamentals on the instrument. It sounds like you're already on a good path with your work in the ensembles you mentioned. But, you didn't mention having a teacher. Highly recommended! You'll make so much more progress in a period of time than if you're doing it on your own.

Doug's second point about a mouthpiece is also my experience. Assuming one has decent clarinet chops, having a pro-level mouthpiece can make more of a difference in your sound than even a better quality clarinet. Clark Fobes and Walter Grabner are two mouthpiece makers I'd recommend.

Doug's point about having your clarinet checked over and adjusted by a clarinet repair tech is also good advice. I've gotten into a habit of taking my clarinets to my repair tech once a year for a check over and adjustments. This needs to be part of one's list of maintenance things to do in order to keep a wood clarinet in prime condition.

Finally, to second what DougR said, I'd suggest that if there is a music shop in your area that has a selection of clarinets to take your mouthpiece and give them a try. That's the best way to see for yourself various differences between clarinet brands, models, and price ranges.

Be advised that some clarinet models have improved over time and others have had a decline in quality. In the past I had a restored 1964 Noblet. It was a well-made and solid clarinet. A few years ago I was curious about how new and old Noblets compare. So, I tried a new Noblet at a local music shop and was absolutely shocked at how lesser quality it was compared with an old one.

All of that said, I cannot help but think there may NOT be a reason for you to get another clarinet. Reading your message again, it sounds like it's working well for you and is in good condition. There's nothing wrong with having an older clarinet as long as it has good intonation and performance characteristics. My two Couesnon Monopole clarinets are about 40 and 50 years old. I give them good maintenance care and they work beautifully for me. I'm thinking that you might get the most bang for your buck by getting a Clark Fobes mouthpiece or perhaps a Walter Grabner K14. I don't think that you can go wrong with either a Fobes or Grabner. It's my gut feeling that one of their mouthpieces will take your Normandy to a higher level. And, it's A LOT cheaper than buying a new clarinet.

Good luck!

Roger
 
#8 ·
Having played Normandys and the Buffet E-11, i wouldnt buy an E-11. Its not much of an upgrade, and maybe even a step down.

I got a chance to play an old Evette and S something clarinet, and I was amazed at how bad my E-11 was in comparison. Better Clarinets are easier to play in tune, have a generally better tone quality, especially up high, and have a bigger dynamic range with out losing the quality of sound.

I agree with Roger about the mouthpiece. I havn't tried a Fobes, but Walter Grabner makes great pieces. If i had the money I would have already grabbed a K-14 from him.

clarinetdude
 
#9 ·
The biggest reason to upgrade is when you are better than the instrument. If the mechanism, bore, sound of the instrument gives you the feeling that it is holding you back from playing better, it is time to upgrade. The Normandy is considered a student/intermediate clarinet. An upgrade from this that is worth your while and time and energy would be nothing less than a pro model clarinet. The suggestion made here, the E-11 or Noblet 45, would be a waste of money. They might also be a backward move at the worst and a lateral move at the best.

If I were you, I would start carrying my mouthpiece, ligature, reeds and barrel with me at all times. This way if you find yourself in the presence of another clarinet and you can try it, try it. This will be the only way to know exactly what you have and what you don't.
 
#10 ·
My Normandy is works fine top to bottom. Like I said I have had pads replaced, recently looked at by a quality tech, and had all tensions replaced.

For a reference, http://www.clarinetperfection.com/clsnLeblanc.htm#SNNoblet

From here I wanted to know where would be a step up and not a lateral move.

I have had clarinet lessons at the college level and play on a B46 MPC.
 
#11 ·
Any of the Buffet, Selmer, Yamaha, or LeBlanc pro lines are good places to start.
The most common is the Buffet R13. But don't get one because that's what "everybody else" has.
Try as many as you can get your hands on in your price range. And more than one of each model. They are all individuals with their own 'voice'. Also don't limit yourself to new clarinets only. There are some superb vintage clarinets out there too.

When I was shopping for a Pro clarinet I tried probably 15 different instruments before I chose my Selmer Signature. If you know what you're looking for as far as feel and sound are concerned, you'll know when you've found the right clarinet for you.
 
#12 ·
I'd go one further and say, "First, pick a clarinet with which you are comfortable. Then, try a variety of compatible barrels with the horn and pick the best of the bunch from those."

It's not always possible to get a large universe of clarinets from which to pick, but getting more than one barrel is "doable" for anyone with a credit card and some time to spend.
 
#13 ·
Rad .. if you were around here i'd let you try a Noblet 45, E11, R13, Selmer CT, etc for comparision.

The Normandy 10 has the same approx bore as the Noblet 45. Not sure how much of an upgrade that would be. Moving up to a larger bore Selmer like a CT, Series 9 et all would make a significant upgrade. toneholes are largers thus provides more freebllowing, clearer high notes, etc.

E-11 is a different category. I'd use it more for general concert playing and not what you would want it for.

The big bore leblancs are nice though I'd recommend the Selmers over them

I have a pretty good idea of what you're looking for and the vintage selmers are pretty good - you can really make them sing and their high notes will be much better.
 
#14 ·
Ya today I played with a group as a fill in and they asked me to cover the Artie Shaw Begin the Beguine part. It sounded fine in pitch but by the end I just felt covered up by the Brass. I sounded tiny, with my black stick of death.

I tried the 5JB Vandoren that Steve sent me but at the time it I just wasn't covering clarinet soloist parts. I blended better with the B46. I think I will take another stab on the 5JB but I was also just thinking of other ways to cover the solo clarinet parts when it comes to volume and possibly cleaner action. But the action part for me is hard to understand on clarinet. As long as all your pads seal and you have good technique to cover the tone holes when does action on pro horns come into play. In other words what technically makes a pro horn out of clarinet once you hit wood and silver keys?
 
#15 ·
while it's true that most boehm clarinets are essentially the same there are minute differences in everything.

more student clarinets have smaller toneholes .. pro generally speaking larger toneholes. location of keywork is slightly different too. normandy (smller hands) to noblet (intermediate hands) to leblanc (larger hands). since i have those odd fused bones in my wrists it really is quite variable to my lack of hand flexibility so I really notice that.

also the diff between cheaper pointed pivot screws, better finished keywork with more (slightly more) sculpted rings. needle springs ... all little fine details that, truthfully, few doublers will really notice.

the big thing you would notice from the Normandy 10 to a Selmer (CT, Series9 ,etc) would be the bigger sound that you could more easily push from it for longer periods of time .. plus at an affordable price (other option is like a Buffet RC$$)

ie, A Noblet 45 wouldn't get your much more than a Normandy 10, it will get you a better tone for playing in a more refined setting .. but not for your specific requirements.
 
#16 ·
The 5JB I sent off to a semi-pro down in texas. I moved him from a regular HS* to a HS**, Woodwind K8* and the 5JB. he's playing jazz duets with piano in hotel/bar setups.

the HS** is doing him really good, K8* even better but he's been working on the 5JB and understanding the finer points of why i wanted him to work with it .. he's learning the increased flexibility of the mpc while learning to corral it to get a better tone than he initially had.

Each mpc is different and usually requires some getting used to. he's had it for a month+ now and he's still understanding it's quirks. the 5JB is a different mpc from normal but it's pretty nice for those wanting a big sound

FYI .. not sure what you mean by action .. it may just be technique and thus practicing more exactness in your technique. maybe send me some music and recording of it.
 
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