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  1. #1

    Default Yamah 250 vs Buffet B12

    Hi,

    For a clarinet doubler (beginner), which one (250 vs B12) would you recommend?

    Thanks.
    First you need to learn the tendancies of your instrument, learn how to adjust and over time it becomes integrated.
    Fill the horn up with air. Not necessarily louder but simply with a fuller sound.

  2. #2
    Distinguished SOTW Member BlueTrane2028's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yamah 250 vs Buffet B12

    They're both fine, but I'd say just go with an E-11. If you've already been playing sax for a few years, you'll get used to the clarinet soon enough and want to move up anyways.

    Get the E-11, it'll last you longer.
    Soprano – Olds "Pro SS" | Alto – 1940 King Zephyr | Tenor – 1970 Selmer Mark VI | Bari – YBS-62 | Clarinet – Buffet E-13 | Bachelor of Music – West Chester University

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Yamah 250 vs Buffet B12

    B12. Hmm.
    That's the one with the weak plastic reinforcing rings, just at the very place the body needs reinforcing. They break. They are difficult to obtain. Yamaha has the indestructible traditional, metal ones, just like all other student and pro clarinets have.

    B12.
    With the adjustable (quite unnecessary) thumb rest, made so weakly that it readily breaks, leaving the instrument unplayable. Replacement with the same sub-standard rest is silly, so if this happens, by a Jupiter rest.

    B12.
    BTW, does it have undercut tone holes and screwed-in pillars, as does Yamaha the last time I checked?

    Does the Buffet have any advantage over the Yamaha?
    Contentment is not the fulfilment of what you want, but the realisation of how much you already have.

  4. #4
    Distinguished SOTW Member jmathesonjr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yamah 250 vs Buffet B12

    Yamahas are some fine clarinets. I have played all the models from the 450 up and have found them all superb instruments. The shop I was at had sold out of the 250s. I should mention that this shop has a great deal of trouble keeping the Yamaha clarinets in stock. They sell them rather quickly.

    I compared the Yamahs to the Buffets and Leblancs and found them superior in my opinion. The Yamahas just played better for me. They had better intonation, had better key placement, and were balanced weight-wise better. I did not fell like I was fighting the Yamahas at all.

    The only downside I see to the 250 is that it is plastic. And for that reason, I may not have tried this model if the store had one.

    Get the Yamaha. I think they are far better clarinets than the Buffets and Leblancs.
    YBS-62 Baritone Saxophone
    Francois Louis B 345 SP
    Vandoren 2.5 - 3.5

  5. #5
    Distinguished Technician & SOTW Columnist
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    Default Re: Yamah 250 vs Buffet B12

    Get theYamaha. But save a few bucks to get it serviced properly, espsecially if the player has any problem with middle-staff B.

    When new, the pads do not always meet the tone holes well for the some of the 5 keys that are normally open.

    BTW, this is reasonably common with new clarinets of any price, from most makers.
    Contentment is not the fulfilment of what you want, but the realisation of how much you already have.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Yamah 250 vs Buffet B12

    Yamaha

  7. #7

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    Default Re: Yamah 250 vs Buffet B12

    The Yamaha has GREAT intonation, for a student, or, any clarinet!

  8. #8
    Forum Contributor 2009 al9672's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yamah 250 vs Buffet B12

    Gordon, on the B12 don't forget the annoying plastic pins on low E and F# that break at the most critical times(like either during performances/shows - broken one so far)
    Go the yami . I have both a B12 and ycl250 and usually prefer to play on my boosey and hawk regent

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Yamah 250 vs Buffet B12

    Good point. Those plastic pins are a serious mistake that Buffet persists with. As soon as they give trouble, I replace them with metal ones.
    Go Yami.
    Contentment is not the fulfilment of what you want, but the realisation of how much you already have.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Yamah 250 vs Buffet B12

    Hi thanks for all your advice.

    I bought Yami 250 today, and I am very happy with it.
    I can get some notes out of it, and am happy with the intonation (much better than my Alto Ref 54 !!)
    The weight is lighter than my imagination (which is very good for me).

    I use Rico 2.5 reed with the stock 4C MPC. Is that a good set up for doubler?
    First you need to learn the tendancies of your instrument, learn how to adjust and over time it becomes integrated.
    Fill the horn up with air. Not necessarily louder but simply with a fuller sound.

  11. #11

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    Default Re: Yamah 250 vs Buffet B12

    Congratulations: fine choice.

    I use Rico 2.5 reed with the stock 4C MPC. Is that a good set up for doubler?
    Great starting place - you will probably want to experiment a little with reed strengths and makes - it's about what suits you.

    Teacher?
    The only useful metric is the width of the grin.
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Yamah 250 vs Buffet B12

    I've got a y250
    As a beginning clarinet, it is amazing.
    however, eventually you may want a better one.
    but my yamaha has lasted 7 years, and it has only started falling apart in the last 2-3 years.
    Yet, it does hold me back in what I am able to play on it. So, I am getting a backup buffet r 13.
    aphegenuphobia- the fear of people touching knees
    necrophobia- the fear of dead things
    spasmenaklarinophobia- the fear of broken clarinets

  13. #13

    Default Re: Yamah 250 vs Buffet B12

    I do not have a teacher for Clarinet yet.

    I hope I can self-learn it as it is also a reed instrument. Today, I am able to get low E to high C (I think, following the fingering chart, I hope I can get the last few standard notes from high C to high F in a day or 2).

    Is that a OK approach?
    First you need to learn the tendancies of your instrument, learn how to adjust and over time it becomes integrated.
    Fill the horn up with air. Not necessarily louder but simply with a fuller sound.

  14. #14
    Distinguished SOTW Member Carl H.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Yamah 250 vs Buffet B12

    Get a teacher now, before you teach yourself all sorts of bad habits.

    I'm not saying it isn't possible to teach yourself, somebody had to be first, but why learn everything the hard way?
    So far, this is the oldest I've been.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Yamah 250 vs Buffet B12

    Yamaha 4C do not give me a good impression on my Yamaha Saxophone.

    So, is Clarinet Yami 4C also the similar grade?
    Is that a benefit for (me) a beginner to upgrade the MPC now or I can upgrade the MPC later? Which MPC should I look for?

    Fyi, I am using AL4 (Vendoren) / Meyer 5M in my Sax Alto. Is there any reference value of my Alto setup when I am choosing Clarinet setup?
    First you need to learn the tendancies of your instrument, learn how to adjust and over time it becomes integrated.
    Fill the horn up with air. Not necessarily louder but simply with a fuller sound.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Yamah 250 vs Buffet B12

    You can teach yourself but Carl is on the money; getting a teacher will help you avoid all sorts of abhorrent habits. I self taught clarinet and- as an example- squandered hours and hours and hours making the B and C at the top of the Chalumeau (lower) register sound like real notes because I thought "here they are- I guess I should use them". I use forked fingerings like I was at a fondue party simply because I developed the habit. Have I managed to fix most of this in the past thirty odd years...? Well, most. Looking back on it I would have been miles ahead with a decent teacher- at least for the fundamentals. How far those fundamentals extend depends on your goals and standards. Mr. Blayman, my sister's teacher and a real clarinet player, claimed he was still working on those even after he retired from the Met.

  17. #17
    Distinguished SOTW Member jmathesonjr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yamah 250 vs Buffet B12

    About the 4C mouthpiece. How long have you been playing Alto? If you are taking lessons on the Alto, your sax teacher might be able to help you on the clarinet and making a decent mouthpiece selection there. The 4C is probably the best first mouthpiece to go with today.

    Before getting a new mouthpiece, try stronger reeds. A 2 1/2 reed on clarinet is a bit soft. It is good for a flat out beginner, but not for a serious player. I would wait on another mothpiece until your embouchure is stronger.

    All the clarinet doublers I know play at least on a 3 1/2 reed strength. Some play on 4 to 4 1/2 reeds. I think you need to wait on the new mouthpiece.

    I also find the comment you made about this clarinet playing better in tune than the Alto Reference you play. That Reference should have almost perfect intonation. If it does not, I would take that into the shop immediately because something is wrong there. I would also have your sax teacher play the Reference to see what your teacher's thoughts on the Reference are.

    If you do not have a teacher, then on your way back from taking the Alto in GET ONE! It is extremely difficult to learn an instrument without one and very difficult to get better with out one.

    Good luck and let us know how things are going with the clarinet.
    YBS-62 Baritone Saxophone
    Francois Louis B 345 SP
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  18. #18
    Distinguished SOTW Member Carl H.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Yamah 250 vs Buffet B12

    A Yamaha 4C is generally a good mouthpiece, but I had a student with a piece that slipped by QC. It was visibly flawed so badly that I did a facing touchup on the spot with the emery cloth I use for dressing reeds. It played better after some crude balancing and removal of a hump.

    If you suspect the mouthpiece, find somebody who knows what to look at and have them give it a quick looking at, but don't spend money having it refaced, you can replace it for far less than the price of a professional refacing.
    So far, this is the oldest I've been.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Yamaha 250 vs Buffet B12

    Quote Originally Posted by saxophonedaniel View Post
    I do not have a teacher for Clarinet yet.

    I hope I can self-learn it as it is also a reed instrument. Today, I am able to get low E to high C (I think, following the fingering chart, I hope I can get the last few standard notes from high C to high F in a day or 2).

    Is that a OK approach?
    It's an OK approach to learning fingering. But unless you are well aware of how very different a clarinet embouchure is from a sax embouchure, you need a teacher!
    Contentment is not the fulfilment of what you want, but the realisation of how much you already have.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Yam ah 250 vs Buffet B12

    Quote Originally Posted by barisaxi View Post
    I've got a y250
    As a beginning clarinet, it is amazing.
    however, eventually you may want a better one.
    but my yamaha has lasted 7 years, and it has only started falling apart in the last 2-3 years...
    Falling apart! What!!!!

    Shame on whoever did not set it up correctly. Shame on you letting it get to this point.

    Clarinets that are properly set up just do not fall apart, especially a student Yamaha. What exactly do you mean?

    Get it serviced properly, like you should have done (with any clarinet) when you bought it, and you will quite likely stop thinking you need to consider the R13, which will almost certainly also need servicing attention.
    Contentment is not the fulfilment of what you want, but the realisation of how much you already have.

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