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Thread: What is the street price for new pro Cannonballs ?

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    Default Re: What is the street price for new pro Cannonballs ?

    FWIW, my much trusted tech (who works for an old time dealer that now sells CBs) told me tonight that CB has again improved with the Vintage horns. His report is you can still see where the dollars are saved in things like pivot screws and lots of burrs, but that this is CB's best playing horn so far. He also likes the real engraving. I'll be curious what he has to say about the finishes (maybe why CB limited the choices?) after they get a little age on them. He has commented in the past about how poorly some of the older finishes held up. They sure looked goofy although I dig the stones.

    I'm curious enough to try one in the next couple of weeks and will report when I do.
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    Default Re: What is the street price for new pro Cannonballs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by SactoPete View Post
    Randall, I'm curious - you mention that you folks have "complete control" since your factory in Taiwan is limited to producing Cannonball saxes. Does the factory create the horns from scratch including all the parts there, or do you source from suppliers and then assemble in the factory. Do you have the same exclusive agreement with the suppliers to maintain control?

    My intent is to try to get a sense of how these horns will be consistent over time, will the first vintage series be pretty much identical to one purchased a couple of years later, or should one expect significant variations over the run due to parts changing out, etc.?

    Regards,

    Pete

    Our horns are built from scratch, but in two ways.

    1. Much of the horns parts are made from scratch in our factory.
    2. Some parts are sourced out, but from our molds, our own alloys (metal mixtures),
    our own directions on how to prepare them. They are made to our
    specifications and our design. No one else in the market will have a part on
    their horn that is on a Cannonball. We are extremely picky about what we accept
    from our suppliers. Many of our parts are completely new and different from what
    has traditionally been on a saxophones....many of our unique parts have now been
    copied by other makers.

    When the sourced out parts come to the factory to be built they are tested
    rigorously to make sure they meet our quality standards and rejected if they
    don't. We then build the horns in the factory with only the parts we have
    approved. This keeps our suppliers on the hook because we will not accept
    poor work.

    I stress again that everything we source out is made from molds that
    Cannonball owns...they are our molds and everything is made to our
    exacting specifications.

    We are also able to stock tons of spare parts in our SLC facility. So yes
    a part 5 years ago will be the same as now. Every Cannonball comes from
    our molds and is very exact.

    I'd also like to recommend that we keep this thread on topic. I don't mind answering
    questions but I feel bad that the threads seem to keep getting hijacked. Posting a
    new thread keeps the information easier to find for people instead of good information
    getting burried in a off topic thread. But either way....If you ask...I'll answer the best
    I can.

  3. #43
    SOTW Contributor 2011 jbtsax's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is the street price for new pro Cannonballs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by saintsday View Post
    FWIW, my much trusted tech (who works for an old time dealer that now sells CBs) told me tonight that CB has again improved with the Vintage horns. His report is you can still see where the dollars are saved in things like pivot screws and lots of burrs, but that this is CB's best playing horn so far. He also likes the real engraving. I'll be curious what he has to say about the finishes (maybe why CB limited the choices?) after they get a little age on them. He has commented in the past about how poorly some of the older finishes held up. They sure looked goofy although I dig the stones.

    I'm curious enough to try one in the next couple of weeks and will report when I do.
    The Cannonball steel pivot screws are the best quality and design available in the industry. Perhaps you can clarify what you mean by "dollars are saved". Please find out from your tech where the burrs are located, as I would like to know exactly what this comment means as well. Perhaps he could join SOTW and we could discuss these observations on the repair section of the forum directly so we as members would not get his comments repeated as facts second hand.

    John

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    Default Re: What is the street price for new pro Cannonballs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by RandalCannonball View Post
    Our horns are built from scratch, but in two ways....<snip>
    Thanks Randall.
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    Default Re: What is the street price for new pro Cannonballs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jbtsax View Post
    The Cannonball steel pivot screws are the best quality and design available in the industry. Perhaps you can clarify what you mean by "dollars are saved". Please find out from your tech where the burrs are located, as I would like to know exactly what this comment means as well. Perhaps he could join SOTW and we could discuss these observations on the repair section of the forum directly so we as members would not get his comments repeated as facts second hand.

    John
    I'll be seeing him in the next week or so and will ask for more details. He did specifically mention burrs on the ends of rods where they weren't cut to the correct length and where the slots were cut off center.

    I doubt I can get him on here. He is way too busy playing and repairing and daddying. I can't even get him out to hear players that we both like because he is too busy gigging.
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    Default Re: What is the street price for new pro Cannonballs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by saintsday View Post
    The big four don't supply parts?

    Please don't be disingenuous. Of course a local dealer is capable of better service than anyone else . Have all local dealers always done so? Of course not.

    The point I was trying to make, and apparently not very well, is that by prohibiting price internet competition, the price is higher than if such competition were allowed. Do you honestly disagree?
    Hey Saintsday,
    I have to get in on this one. Have you tried to order replacement parts from Selmer Lately? Good luck buddy. My roomate just ordered some parts for a Bach trombone, which is a Conn-Selmer product. It has been over 4 weeks and NOTHING!!! The parts also went up in price 140 percent just last year. With customer service like that, Conn-Selmer won't survive 10 more years. I am having my tech do some mods on the Vintage series tenor I just bought. I have ordered a couple of small parts from C-ball. Let's see how long they make me wait. If the wait time is under 4 weeks, C-ball wins. For the record, I am having my tech, Scott Mandeville fabricate a front high F like found on a Selmer mark VI or an sba. I like the button front high F with a MOP or in this case a semi- precious stone. I have ordered a High front f key and a stone. Scott will make the rest. I wanted to keep the original and fabricate the replacement. Those are the parts I am waiting for. This is a brand new horn and I would think replacement parts might be a little hard to come by. We'll see.

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    Default Re: What is the street price for new pro Cannonballs ?

    My new vintage C'ball is flawless, well executed, no gaps, no burrs, ribbed construction...I will be taking it to Scimonetti's in a few weeks to have the spring tension dropped a bit..
    When I received my used Yani B992 from PMWoodwinds, the Ephat pinky key had an obvious burr in the rod action..when depressed the key would step thru it's motion. To compensate, instead of fixing this by removing the burr, someone had set the spring tension at max level. After noticing this, I removed the rod, removed the burr, retensioned the spring, lubed, and reinstalled the rod...a world difference better...point is, this was an obvious "defect" on a 7 k (new price) bari sax, purchased from an online dealer that specializes in woodwind repairs.
    I will agree that the finishes of some C'ball horns were temp at best...e.g. flash plating instead of electroplating. The silver plate "Vintage" series seems to have a better quality plate than other C'ball horns I've tried/seen in the past few years...time will tell.
    Disclaimer: My opinions are not based in any way on research, knowledge, experience, talent, insight, facts, or in some cases reality. Take any advice I offer at your own risk.

  8. #48
    Distinguished SOTW Member Dr G's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is the street price for new pro Cannonballs ?

    Anyone else notice that there are a few days worth of posts missing???

    Street price, to answer the original question, is under $2k. That's why SactoPete was able to get a two week old "Vintage" tenor for $2k on eBay.
    Last edited by Dr G; 07-26-2008 at 09:21 PM. Reason: it'll just get deleted...
    Go for The Tone,

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    Default Re: What is the street price for new pro Cannonballs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr G View Post
    Anyone else notice that there are a few days worth of posts missing???

    Street price, to answer the original question, is under $2k. That's why SactoPete was able to get a two week old "Vintage" tenor for $2k on eBay.
    I know my local shop's price of $3k was high, but I've generally heard a "street price" new of $2200-2500.... which would seem about right to get one "second hand" albeit nearly new for just under $2k. Of course, I could be wrong, but I've been watching these threads closely and asking around a fair bit independently.

    ...and as for missing posts, who knows. I think it's a Cannonball thread tradition. At least the thread hasn't been closed (yet).
    Last edited by SactoPete; 07-27-2008 at 05:02 PM. Reason: correction
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    Default Re: What is the street price for new pro Cannonballs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr G View Post
    Anyone else notice that there are a few days worth of posts missing???

    Street price, to answer the original question, is under $2k. That's why SactoPete was able to get a two week old "Vintage" tenor for $2k on eBay.
    Could you please explain what "street price" means in the context you used it? Also what is the source of your information on prices of new Cannonball Vintage saxes. Thank you.


    John

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    Default Re: What is the street price for new pro Cannonballs ?

    deleted
    Last edited by wyliecoyote; 07-27-2008 at 08:50 PM. Reason: request from saxtopete
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    Distinguished SOTW Member Dr G's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is the street price for new pro Cannonballs ?

    "Street price" to me, is what I can get one for.

    Don't feign polite with me, John. We both know it is less than sincere and it, quite frankly, just doesn't play well.
    Go for The Tone,

    g



    "When you are doing well, don't forget to do good." - Sichan Siv.

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    Default Re: What is the street price for new pro Cannonballs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr G View Post
    "Street price" to me, is what I can get one for.
    Back to the second part of my question. Where can you buy a brand new Cannonball Vintage tenor for under $2K? That is what you stated in your previous post, and I would like to know the name and location of the store.




    John

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    Default Re: What is the street price for new pro Cannonballs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jbtsax View Post
    Back to the second part of my question. Where can you buy a brand new Cannonball Vintage tenor for under $2K? That is what you stated in your previous post, and I would like to know the name and location of the store.
    I bet you would - and then the blackshirt goons with the big heads and bad teeth would descend on those dealers to shut them down for breaking the code, eh? Seems like Phil Barone is the only one around that wants to give the break to the musicians rather than the dealers.

    I won't give you the name John, just the location - Texas. Knock yourself out - please.
    Go for The Tone,

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    Default Re: What is the street price for new pro Cannonballs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr G View Post
    I bet you would - and then the blackshirt goons with the big heads and bad teeth would descend on those dealers to shut them down for breaking the code, eh? Seems like Phil Barone is the only one around that wants to give the break to the musicians rather than the dealers.

    I won't give you the name John, just the location - Texas. Knock yourself out - please.
    What nonsense. Each dealer is provided with the instruments at the same wholesale price and then that dealer determines what retail will be based upon the overhead of the stone and what the market will bear in that particular area. The Cannonball company does not dictate to the dealers what prices to charge. That's absurd to even suggest that.

    Your ludicrous response belies the fact that you have no verifiable information to present here to back up your statements which have been clearly intended to "devalue" the Cannonball Vintage saxophones from the beginning of this thread. Your credibility suffers when you make statements of fact and then provide evasive responses when asked for verifiable information to back up your statements.

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    Post Re: What is the street price for new pro Cannonballs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr G View Post
    I bet you would - and then the blackshirt goons with the big heads and bad teeth would descend on those dealers to shut them down for breaking the code, eh? Seems like Phil Barone is the only one around that wants to give the break to the musicians rather than the dealers.

    I won't give you the name John, just the location - Texas. Knock yourself out - please.
    Jeesh..just like thousands of other companies..Cannonball sells at a set wholesale price, and prefers selling thru dealerships...who "set" their retail asking price...if you don't like it..negotiate!
    Jeesh...just like thousands of other companies...Phil Barone sells at a set price, and prefers to sell direct to the buyer...and very reasonable...but it sounds as if someone is "pimping" his horns here.

    Dr. G...have you been watching to many B-movies lately? I don't think we should criminalize either selling method...take your pick and live with it. Just as so many other people have done..Cannonball started on a dream that a couple of individuals hocked their lives on...I'm sure they weren't born with a gold spoon lodged firmly...I'm sure they've signed on the dotted line a number of times to get where they are in the music business. I'm also sure that they are trying their best to stay in business...a tough business...marketing, product improvement, support for a dealer network, parts supplies, etc. etc....and they want to know if they have an unhappy customer..with one of their products..or a particular dealer..and why. Maybe they're millionaires now...if so, they deserve it...they aren't criminals for being sucessful.

    I think it's time for the moderators to step in here...again...you can cut the animosity with a knife........those who have no real interest in owning/playing C'ball horns...please leave!
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    Default Re: What is the street price for new pro Cannonballs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by wyliecoyote View Post
    ...Phil Barone sells at a set price, and prefers to sell direct to the buyer...without negotiation...
    Are you sure about that? Have you tried to negotiate with Phil?

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    Default Re: What is the street price for new pro Cannonballs ?

    Nevermind
    Last edited by SactoPete; 07-27-2008 at 05:03 PM. Reason: tangential to thread
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    Default Re: What is the street price for new pro Cannonballs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Stevens View Post
    Are you sure about that? Have you tried to negotiate with Phil?
    I put that "no-negotiate" in there with hardly a serious thought...so I "corrected" my statement...ok?
    I having nothing at all against Phil...I did email him about a bari sax..back and forth...and decided on a different horn, and not because of pricing...after trying out a P.Mauriat...but hey, I'll correct and say that Phil will negotiate, depending on his stock of horns & financial need at the time...again, my intention was not to disparage Phil in any way..just to point out it's common enough for both business models to coincide...and let the consumer choose.

    By the way..my street price was $2,300 for a silver plated vintage tenor, with the P. Christlieb model engraving, from Scimonetti's in Lancaster, CA...plus state sales tax...plus an extra amount for a second neck ordered with the horn...and a few dollars more for some other items related to use of the horn...reeds, swabs, etc.. $2,900 total. Other finishes were slightly different in price.
    I'm more than willing to support a business such as Scimonetti's...owned by a very good muscian who knows his stuff and who works hard every day to make a customer happy...and who hires a lot of friendly competent great local people to do his tech work...it's a place that is wonderful to walk into...lots of fun energy...Cannonball has a good rep here!
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    Default Re: What is the street price for new pro Cannonballs ?

    Deleted
    Last edited by wyliecoyote; 07-27-2008 at 08:51 PM. Reason: request from Sactopete
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