Kali Mouthpiece Pass-Around Review

[Swampcabbage]

Hello, as I was the first on the list, so I shall be the first in the review. DISCLAIMER: I have no professional or other association with Wanne Inc. other than I have purchased a few accessories in the past and the initial communications for this trial.

First of, I’d like to send a big kudos out to Spooner and Theo for doing this. I think this is a brilliant way to get the true “word” out about a product. As we all should know; the proof is in the putting. As Theo has a very small company and limited stock, it makes little sense to send out 10s or 100s of pieces out to stores for trial. On that note, it is a testament to the SOTW community that these trials are possible, so each of us who has proven to be responsible and considerate regardless of politics (and not just the lawmaking kind) deserves kudos as well. Obviously these trials are taking place due to the success of previous pass-arounds.

Okay, everyone feel good now. Here goes.

This is my first attempt at a comprehensive product review of any kind. Also, my qualifications are quite modest. I’ve done some professional work in the past and continue to reap a respectable sum as a second job. But, I ain’t the second coming of Joe Blow (insert your favorite player regardless of talent or success here). However, I do play frequently (everyday for a few hours or more) and recently have been expanding my playing and practicing more and more (those privy to my personal life know why).

MY SETUP(S): This is a tenor piece so; it’s just the tenor(s).
HORNS: ’63 Selmer Mark VI, ’38 Conn 30M, ’62 The Martin (relacquered). The VI is in great form, the Conn and Martin could maybe use a touch of adjustment, but nothing major.

MY CURRENT MOUTHPIECES: Rock, R&B, Blues - Guardala MBII with a Selmer 402 ligature and RSJ 4s Unfiled reeds (and yes, it measure dead on to .115). Jazz - FL Otto Link 6 (No USA) with either a SAXXAS lig or a Selmer 404 lig, same reeds. FL Otto Link 6* (opened to .107 by Bob Carpenter and slightly refaced by Ted Klum). Same ligs, same reeds. And, a HR V16 T8 with H style lig from Rico. Same reeds.

MY ENVIRONMENTS: Loud noisy rock bands, blues, r&b bands, GB bands, light jazz, avante garde, New Orleans brass style, etc… you get the point. No, I do NO classical or legit music in performance. I sometimes will do a musical here and there.

THE KALI MOUTHPIECE: First, imagine my reaction when I opened it and there was no guarantee that I was going to have the chops of Michael Brecker and Chris Potter combined with the sonorous instincts of Dexter Gordon and Coleman Hawkins filtered by the pure genius of John Coltrane (IMO the greatest tenor play that ever lived; just so you know where my bias is). But, I trudged on anyway. (If I could pay extra for that, I would as I’m sure many of us have tried to).

THE LOOK: Absolutely stunning craftsmanship. Inside and out. I believe this piece may have been play tested before and there was a slight blemish on the table, but nothing effecting the seat of the reed. A friend of mine whose seen a few Gregory’s compared it very much so to his work, outstanding. It’s truly amazing what they are doing.

The interior is similar to my MBII in that it has a medium length and high step baffle and rounded sidewalls. However, the rounding begins at the tip and the sidewalls are much deeper and more fluid. The chamber is HUGE. I can stick my pinky in there and even wiggle it a little bit from the window. I would have to say it looks like an impeccably modified great Link. The table at the window does not come to the razors edge like point that I’ve come to admire in the Guardala’s and FL Links, but, it does have a very nice point to it and stays very thin throughout the chamber. The tip opening is dead on .110 with nice thin to medium rails and a complimenting duck bill.

The recessed patch area in lieu of a biteplate also helps provide a lower profile.

The facing break appears to be rather long. I have not measured it, but it appears to go all the way to bark on the sides of my reeds.

HOW IT PLAYS: Ok, WOW!!!! Seriously; fatter, more lushness, easier handling, and more personal of a sound than any of my pieces combined. The dynamics on the Kali are amazing. From PPP to FFF I felt like it could go on for ever. Palm keys and altissimo was full and very responsive. It really felt like I was playing within the natural range of the horn up there. But, I didn’t have to push it either; dynamics were nice and easy in upper ranges as well. Certain notes that I had issues with before appeared to disappear.

The lower register was fat, lush and well spoken. It really felt effortless from top to bottom. It’s a different “blow” than a Guardala (more like a Link), but once I got used to it and the embouchure change from the shorter Guardala to the longer Kali, I was really starting to find a lot of clarity.

Multiphonics were a little tougher to dial in but once I had, it was no longer an issue.

I played it on two gigs. The first being a Blues gig in a loud bar where there were no monitors and plenty of guitars. I was really amazed with the projection and presence that it had. The intonation was wonderful; I was playing both of these gigs with another tenor player (the guy who compared them to the Freddie Groegory’s he’d seen) and he commented on how good the intonation was.

With the long facing I was able to really work notes as well with bends, falls, lifts and so on. Flutter tonguing came out rich and full even in the palm keys (which I rarely even attempt because of the thinness in that range). The only “negative” comment I got that evening was that it may not (this was only a premonition by my friend) “cut” enough or have a compact enough sound when he needed it to.

Well, then cam the second gig and I must say that I was able to find that compactness. The second gig was an R&B gig. Another loud band and a packed house with moderate to low monitor support. It was just a matter of find the right way to blow the piece and change the air-stream.

Also, this piece “corners” incredibly well. The response to reverse directions is simply astounding to me. I’m used to having to really push into the corners sometimes and found myself just playing. Like singing and not having to think about it. The combination of the baffle, sidewalls, longer facing, and the extra-large chamber in a high quality piece are really doing it for me and my own sound concept. A link on steroids as is often said. Or a huge sounding Dukoff.

When I did the hand off I had the opportunity to play a double ring, Zimberoff, Dukoff stubbie, and a nice Pillinger. None of them did it for me even close to what the Kali was doing.

Today, I went to hand it off to the next person on the list. He, my friend, and myself all played it and I noticed something very nice. It did not dictate the sound of any of us. It simply sounded like a fuller and richer personality. Also, when I did the hand off I had the opportunity to play a double ring, Zimberoff, Dukoff stubbie, and a nice Pillinger. None of them did it for me even close to what the Kali was doing.

This piece is incredibly versatile. Is it worth $775? Well, I can’t really say that for your sake. However, I do plan on purchasing one when and if I have the opportunity to.

That’s my opinion.

Oh yeah, I still play and sound like me. Just feels like a better me in some ways.

[zxcvbnm]

Thanks for the review! Anyone know if they'll be doing anything for alto anytime soon?

[saxmanjack]

Excellent review; refreshing that you tested the piece in 'real world' conditions. Did you notice that, due to its large chamber, the Kali required more air than the MBII?

[Swampcabbage]

Excellent review; refreshing that you tested the piece in 'real world' conditions. Did you notice that, due to its large chamber, the Kali required more air than the MBII?

Yes and know. My standard strength reed was a little strong for it at first so I resurfaced it a little more than I would and the response came to life. It was certainly a different blow Once I got used to taking in more mouthpiece due to the longer facing, it wasn't an issue. I suspect that if I were to play on it for a week I would no longer need to teak the reeds as much.

The bell keys were the most effected by the chamber/facing difference. Again, once I was taking in more piece, it was fixed. The MBII has a very short facing.

As for the "real world" I sort of nhad little choice in the matter. As a lot of folks probably know around here, I use an e-sax mute to practice as I have a very sensitive aprtment building. I was supposed to get into a space and record and all that fun stuff (Oh, I had big plans to do clips of all my main pieces). Instead, I ended up getting a couple of calls for gigs. In order to spend any real time with the piece it had to come with me.

FWIW - I had to go back to practicing on the MBII last night and it wasn't nearly as fun.

[Swampcabbage]

Oh, and once I got used to blowing on the Kali, it seemed to take less air.

[heath]

But what you're saying is that your MBII is adequate for your needs to perform. I checked the WWBW prices for the MBII and they are pretty darn cheap, $219 when they are in stock.

[Dr G]

But what you're saying is that your MBII is adequate for your needs to perform. I checked the WWBW prices for the MBII and they are pretty darn cheap, $219 when they are in stock.

Hmmm, what he ACTUALLY said was:

Is it worth $775? Well, I can’t really say that for your sake. However, I do plan on purchasing one when and if I have the opportunity to.

... and other stuff.

[saxmanjack]

Therefore the MBII is a better value (if you want to play 3 or 4 tenors at the same time).

[Woody Reed]

Therefore the MBII is a better value (if you want to play 3 or 4 tenors at the same time).

I think I got the humor in that The LT MB II (assuming that's what your referring too) is a great value piece. They are amazingly close to each other in playability, which is killer for mail order. And also a great mpc to reference to by swampcabbage since we all have easy access to it. That said, I really think a $750 hand-made mpc should be in the shop to try. OK, maybe not in the music shop in a town of 500 people, but certainly LA, NY, Chitown, etc. I miss those days. Even if they were demo pieces - then order, they should be there. With shipping costs and insurance, even returns will cost a bunch just for the privilege of checking out the piece with a return policy. I just did that with another manufacturer, and it cost me $60 in the end for their shipping and credit card fees. In the end, the piece wasn't for me. Has anyone bought a Theo piece and returned it? What was the end cost for trying the piece and not keeping it? Just curious.

[Swampcabbage]

I would not say that is the case for me. Honestly, this piece could and will easily replace my arsenal of Links and MBII's. I'll keep one or two of each for backups and parades, but, the Kali (for me, I will not pretend to speak for anyone else) plays with the fluidity of a double ring, fatness of a great florida, and projection of a Guradala (again, I've never played a handmade, but, I am eager to put this toe to toe with one if anyone has one in the area and wants to do a little playing together).

Ok, sounds like the holy grail. The thing is it keeps it's tonal quality from ppp to fff which is probably the biggest drawback I've had with some of the other "links on roids."

Now, as far as the "value" is concerned, it's all in your own perception. I know guys who could get a huge sound out of a Monique and plastic bundy mp with a plastic reed. So, in that respect...

But, for me, I was playing my MBII in rehearsal, it sounded fine, but I was missing that Kali sound.

But, honestly, try it yourself, get in on the pass araound if you can and see for yourself. It may not be worth the price tag for you. That's fine, I won't argue with you about it. But, once I get one I feel a shakedown in my arsenal coming.

[Swampcabbage]

BTW, I referenced the MBII as it is stated in the description that it is similar in it's basic design to the handmade MBI's and MBII's. The MBII is what I have been playing on for the rock gigs over the past year, or similar style pieces, but, I have missed playing my Florida STM's for the fatness and that complexity that it has. This piece just blows it all away for me.

[heath]

There's no doubt TW knows mouthpieces and how they work.

The thing that scares me a little is the thin rails. Them babies are really thin. It wouldn't take much to damage them.

How well did the side rails match your reeds Swamp. Was the rails flush with the side of the reed like a NY Link or was the reeds sticking out on the sides a little.

[Swampcabbage]

BTW, I referenced the MBII as it is stated in the description that it is similar in it's basic design to the handmade MBI's and MBII's. The MBII is what I have been playing on for the rock gigs over the past year, or similar style pieces, but, I have missed playing my Florida STM's for the fatness and that complexity that it has. This piece just blows it all away for me.

And PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE take this as MY opinion. Ther is no right or wrong on soemthing like this. The MBII is a GREAT value, IMO, for the price and what it does. And a great STM is nothing to sneeze at, new, old, or whatever. The proof is in the putting.

I do think the market prices on the vintage stuff seems to be getting out of control. However, it's capitalism and you can't argue with the price of luxury items (and let's face it, ANYTHING having to do with the saxophone is actually a luxury item).

[Swampcabbage]

There's no doubt TW knows mouthpieces and how they work.

The thing that scares me a little is the thin rails. Them babies are really thin. It wouldn't take much to damage them.

How well did the side rails match your reeds Swamp. Was the rails flush with the side of the reed like a NY Link or was the reeds sticking out on the sides a little.

Make no mistake about it. This is not a modified Guardala or Dukoff, The rails, beak, everything about it screams Link, with the exception of the baffle. So, the rails are medium to thin, between Guardala and a standard STM and on the fatter side. BTW, I failed to mention that it is HEAVY HEAVY brass. I swear it could almost be as dense as bronze.

And hey, I think he is working on getting these into some of the bigger stores. You can only send out so much in a private operation. Give them a little time. I think the pass around is a great idea though.

[heath]

Kali Baffle/Chamber.


Parvati Baffle/Chamber


Parvati Baffle/Chamber


From what I can see I think it would actually be better if the window at the edges near the side rails had the extra brass taken off and made flush or level with the rest of the baffle as opposed to sweeping up on the sides making it concave at the baffle. For me you can get a fatter sound the wider this area is at the start of the the tip going back. Interesting piece though considering it's so carved out and not cast in two pieces.

[Swampcabbage]

I think some of what you're seeing in the pics is a bit of an optical illusion. However, I see your point. For some other reason though, it just works. Are you on the pass around? I would be very interested in your analysis.

[heath]

No pass around for me. I'm not going to temp the devil on this one.

Honestly the Parvati would be the piece that would be close to the one I'd like. That high baffle on the Kali looks like a firecracker. I doubt we'd get along too well.

I did see where Garbarek threw his endorsement to TW, that would be nice if you could slap on one of Theo's pieces and instantly sound like Jan.

And you're probably right about the optical illusion. Now that I look at it the side rails are hallowed out clear up to the tip of the side rails making it look like there's still more material that could be scooped out on the sides of the baffle/window.

The piece that I want to try just for giggles is Ponzols Vintage Stainless Steel. It's not cheap, but it would be interesting to hear how it plays.

[DanPerezSax]

Thanks for that review. Obviously you really took the time to write this up well instead of just getting a sick mouthpiece for a week and "phoning it in." I can't wait to get this baby in my hot little hands!

[Kritavi]

Kali Review #2

Let me begin with thanks to Theo and Spooner for this innovative and helpful way to get the word out on a new product.

I had the good fortune to hear SwampCabbage work out on this piece and I dug it. He sounded great, he sounded better then he did on any of the other fine pieces I heard him on that day including my piece, the Pillinger.

I’ve played the Kali on two horns. My 184,xxx VI (with a 118xxx neck) and my SML Coleman Hawkins Special (with Oleg neck). Overall I liked it better with the Hawkins and tried it there the most. I use vandoren ZZ 2 ½’s.

The Kali while not something I plan to buy is an outstanding piece for many reasons. I give Theo credit for an innovative design and a beautiful piece. Lets face it, some of that is purely marketing driven but towards that end he has designed an impressive and unique piece.

The ligature works very well. Some will love it , some won’t. From a design point of view I think the plate should be gold plated to match the rest of the piece.

I also got to hear Les Arbuckle on this piece and from a stone cold start he also sounded great on it. I’ve heard Les on a variety of pieces over the years and this was clearly one of the best to my ears. This is (for me) that rare high baffle power piece that actually has a pleasing tone. It seems well designed to balance out a strong all out style of playing with enough of a chamber to add some fatness to what otherwise might be a shrill kind of tone. So to my ears it is just a great rock and roll piece which for me extends to say Bob Berg playing with Miles, he would have sounded tremendous on this thing.

I would say it is a piece that will please most who invest in it if they choose carefully as to size (for me the 7 would have been better then this 8) and if it fits their skill level. It just doesn’t do any good for beginners to buy a piece like this in hopes of “turbo-charging” their playing, it won’t. On the other hand for more skilled but part time players I would think they will find this very easy to get comfortable on and use to get a big sound. More advanced players will figure it out for themselves.

For over two years now while studying with a very capable teacher I have limited myself to just playing on one piece and it has worked out great for me. At this point I am not sure I am even capable of objectively judging a piece in consideration for my own use as the ease and familiarity derived from mouthpiece monogamy trumps any consideration of which piece might theoretically be “the best”. This is not my kind of piece but I like it much more then any of the dozen or so handmade Guardalas I’ve tried and suspect I would like how others sound on it better as well. For players considering that kind of piece this may be a great choice. With both Swamp and Les I really liked how they sounded on the Kali.

Lastly as to price, it is fair to say that these are not inexpensive but it is also evident that a lot of work and research went into it and that you get a lot for your money. If it’s right for you it is worth the price, choose carefully.

I very eagerly await the Parvarti, more my kind of piece from the description.

[Swampcabbage]

BTW - I'd like to make a note of positive customer servies from Tom Wanne and the rest of the group at Wanne. I made a few deals and and was able to pull the funds together to get a Kali. Despite the Wanne shopping cart being down for 5 days. I was able to get it here today. Tom was very patient and helpful. It's a new company so it takes some getting used to, I know. They were cooperative and helpful at every step.

I'm really excited to take this piece to my shows this weekend. Honestly, I thought I might get buyers remorse after a few days back on my MBII I was telling myself "this ain't so different". Well, that was wishful thinking. This piece is awesome.