Saxophone Player Arrested In Tampa Florida

**whaler** · 04-15-2008, 05:19 PM

There are a lot of sax players out there deserving of being arrested and they have recording contracts!
Only thing worse that hearing sax players discussing politics is hearing actors discuss politics (or maybe beauty pagent contestants).

**bfoster64** · 04-16-2008, 01:27 AM

The interesting questions here are whether the ordinance is properly tailored to serve a government interest and whether that interest is substantial enough to outweigh the interests of free expression.

**Wilbur Weltklang** · 04-16-2008, 10:08 AM

As an 'ex' busker myself I can see why the 'laws' were enacted.
Small government (councils) are basically stacked with commercial traders, and the small minded bunch tend to produce law that suits themselves.
Mean spiritedness sees the 'busker' as gleaning (albeit it small) income without paying any rent. They see this as lost income to themselves.

**MartinMusicMan** · 04-16-2008, 03:03 PM

Seems like the issue here is not what the local laws are and why they were enacted, but how they are being enforced by the local storm troopers – the saxophone was confiscated and held as "evidence." The people who support and defend this policy should be ridiculed for being the idiot jerks they are.

**Bill Mecca** · 04-16-2008, 04:17 PM

what they seem to fail to realize is a busker, a good busker, will slow down traffic (which is a good thing) and keep their potential customers in the area longer, instead of hustling past to get their triple decaf mochalatte, and be on their way. Keep them in the neighborhood and that means more business, not only from them but from others who see the area as busy, and therefore of value..

**sw3119** · 04-16-2008, 04:34 PM

By HOWARD ALTMAN | The Tampa Tribune

Published: April 14, 2008

Updated: 04/14/2008 06:21 pm

TAMPA - Saxophone player Maximin Andre Pierre has a new reason to wail the blues.

Maximin Andre Pierre

It was bad enough, he said, that he was homeless after being arrested for stealing a milk crate – a charge he denies even though he entered a guilty plea.

Once again, he's an inmate at Orient Road Jail.

Pierre was arrested Sunday afternoon while playing his sax in Ybor City.

In addition to being behind bars, Pierre said he has been temporarily separated from his beloved King soprano saxophone, which was impounded as evidence.

The 58-year-old Pierre was warned several times by police that he should not be collecting donations in Ybor City without a permit. About 2:20 p.m., when he failed to heed those warnings, he was arrested, according to the report.

Pierre was charged with one count of vending in Ybor City without a permit, a misdemeanor.

Speaking from the Orient Road Jail, Pierre said he is "an artist who is trying to make a living with his art."

He only pled guilty to the milk crate charge because he wanted to get out of jail. But, he said, he intends to fight this latest charge, no matter how long it takes him.

"There should be something in the Constitution that protects someone with little or no power," he said. "This country was built on capitalism. What I do is one of the purest forms of capitalism there is."

Pierre said the amount of money he can earn in a day ranges widely, from nothing to $100.

The biggest single donation he received was $50, from a man who listened to him for hours, he said.

A self-described jazz musician, Pierre said he usually plays standards, like "The Pink Panther Theme," "Tequila" and "Fly Me to the Moon" when he is working the streets in Ybor City.

"If I were on stage, I would play Coltrane," he said. "I am really into straight ahead jazz."

Still, he said he prefers the streets.

"I play on the street by choice," he said, "because I enjoy the freedom."

He might get a chance to taste that freedom again soon.

This afternoon, after learning about Pierre's plight, noted First Amendment attorney Luke Lirot agreed to represent Pierre and post his $250 bond.

"We heard about it and we haven't had a chance to look at Tampa's ordinance, but based on what we heard, they are somehow harassing him and there is no constitutional way to prevent someone from playing the saxophone on the sidewalk," said Lirot's co-counsel, Brandon Kolb.

**Pete Thomas** · 04-16-2008, 04:41 PM

To those who are concerned about politics entering this discussion:

Firstly let me say I'm not a big fan of political discussion on this forum, and you can all rest assured that mods are listening to what you are saying.

If the discussion here gets out of hand, of course something will be done. I haven't seen any evidence of that yet. One problem is that as soon as you start discussing the law and the justice system, it's very hard to avoid politics.

I also just noticed that this section is (I think) intended to discuss the law regarding music & media. I suppose busking may just come into that but one could argue that a better place for this whole thread would be in the lounge. I hesitate to move it there though as I can imagine those who choose to not have access to the lounge would miss out on discussion they are already involved with. It's a pity the thread didn't start there in the first place IMO.

You are all welcome to continue reporting posts that you feel need to be reported, I just wanted to let you know my thoughts on the matter (of course other mods may think differently). Any responses to this and further objections to politicising of this thread should not be made here as it would be nice to keep this thread on topic, you can PM me or any other mods as always.

Thanks and back to the topic (and keep it polite please).

**SAXISMYAXE** · 04-16-2008, 05:08 PM

Since the political facet of this thread doesn't seem to want to go away, and such political discussions of any kind are decidedly not allowed outside the confines of the LOUNGE area per the SOTW posted rules, the staff has two options at this point:
1. Remove a lot of the posts, and possibly raise the ire of those members needlessly.
2. Move the whole thread TO the Lounge area to comply with the rules, and stifle any perceived precedent. (in spite of the fact that the original topic, if it had remained on course, was posted in the correct LEGAL forum).

The latter course was taken.

As Pete sagely suggests, please observe the rules and play nice.

**Stretch** · 04-16-2008, 10:58 PM

A musician aquaintence was arrested for busking at the hub of Toronto, Young and Bloor, some time ago for playing his bagpipes. He lucked out in court, he got a Scottish judge! The case was dismissed. True story.

**SAXISMYAXE** · 04-17-2008, 01:59 AM

I received a PM from member JFW that raised some valid points. Now let me tell you that ANY decision a staff member makes is going to solicit yays and nays. However I felt that the opinions expressed were legitimate, and have elected to remove the offending posts in this thread, and return it to the original, Legal forum.

Originally Posted by JfW

http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin...ad.php?t=82543

I think moving topics that go awry because respondents can't obey the rules sets a very bad precident. This way, any topic in any forum can be muddied by someone's personal political vendetta. I recommend enforcing policy rather than enabling political thread-crapping in non-political forums, and even discouraging political meandering in non-political threads in the lounge.

My humble opinion.

So the final verdict is option #1 from my above post. Any political discussions that spill out of the Lounge area will as a matter of course be deleted henceforth.

**Wilbur Weltklang** · 04-18-2008, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by Bill Mecca

what they seem to fail to realize is a busker, a good busker, will slow down traffic (which is a good thing) and keep their potential customers in the area longer, instead of hustling past to get their triple decaf mochalatte, and be on their way. Keep them in the neighborhood and that means more business, not only from them but from others who see the area as busy, and therefore of value..

Yep, spot on Bill.
Our councils like wasting taxpayers funds renovating the shopping strip areas with street furniture that mimmicks a european atmosphere...but discourage one of the main ingredients.
Personally I don't care how good or bad a busker is in order to contribute. If somebody is making an effort rather than obviously glorified begging then go for it I say.
As for the 'if it's not regulated, everyone will do it' crowd. Question: O.K. so will YOU now get out there and do it?

**LateNiteSax** · 04-18-2008, 09:00 PM

My post in this thread was deleted! Is using the word "facsism" somehow not acceptable?

**Swingtone** · 04-18-2008, 10:16 PM

I wouldn't think so, as long as you spell it correctly....

**spiderjames** · 04-18-2008, 10:46 PM

the sax being held is probably just routine and not any sinister plot on the part of the officers. It was enter as evidence and he probably can get it back until a judge rules on the case. I had some frames stolen from my shop in 2001 that became evidence and the police finally called me last week to see if I wanted to pick them up.

**SuperAction80** · 04-18-2008, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by Wilbur Weltklang

Yep, spot on Bill.
Our councils like wasting taxpayers funds renovating the shopping strip areas with street furniture that mimmicks a european atmosphere...but discourage one of the main ingredients.
Personally I don't care how good or bad a busker is in order to contribute. If somebody is making an effort rather than obviously glorified begging then go for it I say.As for the 'if it's not regulated, everyone will do it' crowd. Question: O.K. so will YOU now get out there and do it?

+1. Sadly, from my personal observation, more is done about the "evil busker" than is done about begging crack heads. (Sarcasm on) Maybe it would work out better if the busker had a few stamp bags hidden in the bell of his horn.

**Selmer Player 88** · 06-08-2008, 12:06 PM

I really don't see what the big fuss is over this.

According to the article he was warned several times that he needed a permit, he didn't get one, so they arrested him. I don't see any "gross violation of rights" here, I see someone who acted irresponsibly.

**Jazzed** · 06-10-2008, 07:52 AM

Playing music on the streets of San Francisco was practically illegal for the past 4 years with many musicians arrested, going to jail and having their equipment confiscated. They were playing in historically traditional spots for street musicians.

It looks like music is finally legal again!!

Check out this long story. It's amazing:

http://www.sfstreetmusic.com/diatribe.html

**whaler** · 06-10-2008, 12:02 PM

If they let the guy play on the street the next people looking for him will be the IRS!
Maybe somebody will give the guy a break after reading his story and book him where he can play.

**RootyTootoot** · 06-10-2008, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Wilbur Weltklang

Yep, spot on Bill.
Our councils like wasting taxpayers funds renovating the shopping strip areas with street furniture that mimmicks a european atmosphere...but discourage one of the main ingredients.

Hey, the councils like to do that in europe too.

As for the street musicians i generally love that stuff but it can also be annoying. One of the most regular buskers in my area is really, really bad - a chap who sings country and western religious stuff with quite a loud portable PA. It's really grim. But i would guess he's "licensed".