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How much does a professor make?

42K views 70 replies 33 participants last post by  hakukani 
#1 ·
How much on average does a sax professor at a university make on average? I'm asking because I am considering being a music major in college, and maybe as a professor later on. I don't want to sound like I am bragging or anything, but I could probably get into a really good school and be a scientist or lawyer or something, but that doesn't appeal to me at all. It just seems kind of boring, and I'd much rather play sax. Any help? Thanks.

On second thought, this should probably be in the high school/college section.
 
#2 ·
How much on average does a sax professor at a university make on average? I'm asking because I am considering being a music major in college, and maybe as a professor later on. I don't want to sound like I am bragging or anything, but I could probably get into a really good school and be a scientist or lawyer or something, but that doesn't appeal to me at all. It just seems kind of boring, and I'd much rather play sax. Any help? Thanks.

On second thought, this should probably be in the high school/college section.
It depends on the school, the school's location, what rank you are hiring in at, and how clever you are at bargaining with the dean when you're hired.

Ranked from the bottom up (and some universities call them by different names):

Grad assistant
guest lecturer
lecturer
associate instructor
instructor
adjunct professor
assistant professor
associate professor
Professor

Only the top three ranks are tenure track. If you don't get a doctorate, don't publish, and don't recruit, you won't probably get tenure. If you go up for tenure, and don't get it you get a year to 'clear out your desk'.

Pay scales go from meager to manageable.
 
#6 ·
"Assistant Professor" isn't always tenure track...I'd also say that adjunct faculty is usually the opening step, rather than guest lecturer, but as you said the nomenclature varies.

More importantly, there is also half-time, three quarter time, and full-time. At smaller schools, they may hire a half-time prof (which is never a tenure track position) to fill a specific need, such as theory...or a small saxophone program. It's better than adjunct work, because you are a contracted employee with benefits, etc. but not as good as being a full-time professor. (Because you can't get tenure until the position is made full-time.) You are paid less, but still have to do service, publishing, etc. but your class load is less as well.
 
#3 ·
Starting salary = $30,000 - $40,000. Masters is the minimum degree and it's very difficult to be competitive without a doctorate or at least everything completed but the disertation.

Unless you are a killer player with impressive experience it is unlikely that your first job will only be to teach the sax studio. Theory, music ed, assistant band, teaching other instruments, etc. will likely be part (majority) of a first job.

Check the job listings in The Chronicle of Higher Education (online and free) to get a sense of what is available, resposibilities, qualifications, and salary. Not to be discouraging, but the reality is: COMPETITIVE!
 
#4 ·
Years ago - when I first started teaching High School - I hooked up with a young College Proff from my Alma matter for a drink. During the discussion he couldnt believe that I was making more than him with a Bachelors in Public school than he was with a doctorate in a College.
 
#5 ·
A lot (most if not all?) of college professors give lessons to high school students on the side as a good way of earning extra cash. I have paid college profs anwhere from $30-$50 an hour. I hear Rousseau charges $200, but that could be total bull.
 
#15 ·
Here's the link to university vacancy listings...just type "music" in the search box.

30k-40k appears to be the starting range for university music positions. Other disciplines (business profs, for example) start at double that amount. And I've been told that my colleagues in the business school get a
minimum of $175 per hour for consulting work. This is one area where the free market is alive and well.
 
#16 ·
You're going to need at least a Masters degree and it's going to be really tough to get hired without a Doctorate. When I was in school, one of the grad assistants told me he was getting frustrated because even Podunk Community College in the middle of nowhere wanted a Doctorate. Even my alma mater initially didn't want to hire one of the greatest big band jazz drummers ever because he didn't have a Masters or a Doctorate.

It's going to be up to you to determine if paying for 5 more years of school is worth it.
 
#23 ·
It seems a little counter-intuitive at first glance: Smaller, more remote colleges being more likely to require a doctorate. One reason for that is the NASM accreditation process. One of the areas they evaluate is the percentage of faculty that hold a terminal degree. So if it's a small program, which might be a little lacking in facilities, library holdings, variety of course/degree offerings, they can score some points by having a high percentage of doctorates on their faculty.
 
#17 ·
Its seems like, in the not-too-distant past, a lot of the college jazz or sax teachers, were very good players, who, for a few reasons (money, or having a family, or not liking The Road), became professors, instead of being full-time pro players.

Now, as I've been told, the music business for most, is so bad, that alot of great pros have turned to teaching or trying to get teaching jobs at colleges, which is making it even more COMPETITIVE.

Now you not only have to compete with the great academic players, but also alot of the smoking, pro players that have CDs out & played with all the cats, etc..

Plus, universities have been trying to move away from full-time tenure positions & hire more & more adjuncts to do the work, because it saves $$ on health benefits & retirement, etc... (like hiring Temps or contract employees, instead of full-timers, in the private sector)

It aint that easy, anymore.

So, kid...do you still want to be a Music Prof???? :):)
 
#24 ·
Amen. The competition for professor positions is brutal in all fields, and I doubt music is any exception. The question you need to ask is: am I willing to put in 6-7 years for a PhD and then go another 6-7 without any good pay, and maybe never get a decent job out of it. That's the reality.

In fact, the competition is so fierce I'm not sure you'd even call it a competition--it's more like gambling with your life. The university where I did my PhD has a decent (for Canada) sized music programme. The last sax professor--Don Palmer--was an experienced experienced pro player with many many recordings under his belt, and the guy who has recently replaced him--Chris Mitchell--is one of the hottest players in the country. With respect to Art's point, Don Palmer's teaching skills were legendary, and I've never heard anybody say anything different about Chris Mitchell. I sure hope he doesn't charge 200/hour though: I'm hoping to take some lessons from him later this year.

Rory
 
#19 ·
If we are talking about classical saxophone tenure track positions, the prospects are probably just a little better than making it into the NBA. Think about it - first you need to get accepted into a good music school, then work your way through all the hurdles to earn a Ph.D. Now, where's the job opening? How many Ph.D.'s has, say, Fred Hemke graduated in his years at Northwestern - and he himself is still occupying one of the few prime gigs after all of these years. There are an awful lot of Ph.D.s in humanities and fine arts being paid a low hourly rate for burdensome teaching loads in non-tenure track positions at universities.
 
#20 ·
10 years ago, I was up for an assist. prof. gig at a SUNY school as a music biz prof. It paid mid-$40s. It came down to me and another candidate and we each had to teach a whole day of classes. I lost out but I was happy that the SUNY school cared about hiring folks who can teach.
 
#25 ·
Most professors I know make around $80,000-$100,000, not to mention their solo careers and the money they make from that.
That may be a true statement, but is a much higher salary than that earned by the university professors I know. And I am one!

The salaries of state employees are often published. If you know a music prof at a state university you can probably find his/her salary with a little online digging.
 
#57 ·
Carbs,

A public school teacher will generally make more. At least in the northeast where starting salaries seem to be about $40000.

Private/Catholic schools on the other hand...forget it. Except maybe an Andover or Phillips Exeter type place.
To me Starting off at 40K would be great. I never went to a private school, and have no desire to teach at one.

One of my jobs is I work with little kids. So 30 or so High Schoolers seem like the lesser of two evils after the past few years. :cool:
 
#30 ·
Unless you are a real hotshot professor who has done something groundbreaking that is. Or a Harold Bloom type...

Don't forget that with professors it is "publish or perish." Not so much in music as with the rest of academia, but you are certainly expected to stay active in other ways.
 
#32 ·
I'm an RN, after realizing 23yrs ago that most of my music major friends would wind up with bleak financial futures. If you are that smart, become an MD, play sax on the side for enjoyment and stress release. You will have your pick of women and be able to afford the nicest horns, and be able to live anywhere, PM me for more info...Chicks dig the sax ;) I make as an RN 80-100K/yr working M-F 7:30-4:00, and I play sax in the clubs on weekends. I can get a job anywhere I want, with excellent benefits. Smartest move I've ever made, especially at the ripe mature age of 21.
 
#33 ·
I agree --

If you're asking the money questions already, you're not going to be happy as a professional musician or music teacher. The people who actually make it through don't really ask those questions -- it's more like, "This is what I do. This is what I'm going to do. I will make it work..."

If you're concerned about money, don't even consider music.

As professors go, we're generally the lowest paid at any given institution. The Bio-Chem, and Engineering guys get paid... We do okay, but we do it because it's just plain what we do.

Into which classification do you fall?

...
 
#35 ·
The $ is the last thing any of us think about. It's a deep passion, and I never seriously considered any other path. If you want to see what kinds of things I do professionally, you can download my CV from my web site--it's found under downloads. At Drake University, for performance faculty, our performance activities are considered scholarship, so the fact that I've published in the Saxophone Symposium and have an upcoming master class CD in Saxophone Journal is considered a bonus.

I can say that I wouldn't have won any of my positions if I couldn't play and teach jazz as well as classical. Further, I've taught theory/ear-training sequences, jazz history, and other academic courses. Finally, this is the first of four positions that I've held where I only teach saxophone. My first two jobs were saxophone, clarinet, and flute; my third was saxophone and clarinet, and included playing principal clarinet in a regional orchestra.

Plowing straight through to a DMA in saxophone performance, no matter where you received it, will not make your resume attractive to the vast majority of schools who also need someone to direct jazz ensemble, teach music appreciation, and possibly another instrument (or several).

I'm lucky to do the work that I do--but I can tell you that if money is your first consideration, you'll not get very far.
 
#38 ·
All college music professors that I know teach lessons on the side to generate some additional income, as well as a variety of gigs. I'm playing High School Musical all week at the Civic Center here in Des Moines--eight shows plus rehearsal and sound check on the first day.
 
#39 ·
Ouch! I hope they pay well! That turkey will never sound good, no matter how long the sound check.
 
#41 ·
#42 ·
Worth mentioning, you do get a lot of holiday being a lecturer/teacher/prof etc, bit unfair to compare that to a law job for instance.

Although in my case I dont get paid during holidays at all, no 'salary' as I am an 'hourly paid lecturer', supposed to save up and/or or get other work during the summer etc, not a proper wage like a full time lecturer or prof, wouldnt want to be full time though, no time to compose/study.

My plan is to get a masters or PHD and get a research type position (less lecturing/teaching), a lot of competition for this sort of work, we`ll see if I get there (might not even get funding for the masters)
 
#43 ·
Worth mentioning, you do get a lot of holiday being a lecturer/teacher/prof etc, bit unfair to compare that to a law job for instance.

Although in my case I dont get paid during holidays at all, no 'salary' as I am an 'hourly paid lecturer', supposed to save up and/or or get other work during the summer etc, not a proper wage like a full time lecturer or prof, wouldnt want to be full time though, no time to compose/study.

My plan is to get a masters or PHD and get a research type position (less lecturing/teaching), a lot of competition for this sort of work, we`ll see if I get there (might not even get funding for the masters)
Ms./Dr. hakukani just spent her entire spring break analyzing data and writing a journal article. So much for the holiday.:)
 
#44 ·
Ms./Dr. hakukani just spent her entire spring break analyzing data and writing a journal article. So much for the holiday.
Fair point, that sort of work is ok if you enjoy doing it and/or if it is your own project or something you are trying to achieve etc (marking essays would not be so great imo), during my summer holiday I 'work' too (composing and studying/researching).
 
#45 ·
Sorry, forgot to mention the two evenings she spent marking essays....:D
 
#46 ·
I know that lecturers, professors etc here in England for other disciplines - e.g. computer science, finance etc don't make very much and that's at a top university.

I think you have a big choice to make - work for money and enjoy music to relax, possibly with high profile gigs; or work in music which may not bring as much money but could be more satisfying. Most music teachers (and students) I've ever met, teach a lot on the side and can still only afford a modest lifestyle - but it seems to be satisfying a relentless musical passion!

Ultimately I think you've got to do whatever is most likely to give you a good quality of life and keep a smile on your face. There's still plenty of things to do musically if you do go into a different discipline. In fact a lot of top performers have degrees in different disciplines.
 
#53 ·
Honestly, my wife almost never stops working as a professor.

And Z, if you don't like teaching 30 of you, keep in mind that you might not have a studio that big, but unless you teach at a very large school, you'll probably have to teach other classes besides saxophone. Usually either theory, history, or some sort of general ed class (which can be brutal.). You also have to find time to perform, practice, and write.
 
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