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  1. #1

    Lightbulb Lydian augmented scale

    When you take the melodic minor scale starding with:

    III you have the Lydian augmented sacle(WWWWHWH)
    IV you have the lydian b7 scale (bartok)
    VII you have the altered scale.

    In his book (patterns for jazz),Jerry coker, don't talk about the Lydian b7 scale, and don't talk about the altered scale.
    He only talk about the Lydian augmented scale (L.A) and advice us to master this scale in order to use it like that:

    On a seven chord:

    -To have a 7#11, play the L.A starting on the seventh of the chord
    -To have a #9b9#11b13 (alt), play th L.A starting onthe third of th chord

    Ex: to Play C7#11 then play Bb Lydian augm.
    to play Calt then play E LYdian augm.

    What do you think about this concept?
    What do you think is best?
    - practice altered scales, then Lydian b7, and maybe the Lydian augm. sacle which can be also use on a major chord?
    -Or practice the Lydian augmented scale, master it, and learn to use it as jerry cooker advice us?

    thanks
    Dam

  2. #2

    Default Re: Lydian augmented scale

    this type of theory all originates from george russell's "lydian chromatic concept" in which he uses lydian and lydian augmented as "parent scales." Most folks now use major and ascending melodic minor as a reference.

    the "best" way to think about it is the way that allows you to make the best music! some people think like george russell, some think like mark levine, and some don't think about any chord/scale theory.

    db

  3. #3
    Distinguished SOTW Columnist and Saxophonistic Artist In Residence Tim Price's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lydian augmented scale

    Lydian augmented scale// major scale with raised fourth and fifth degrees
    Lydian scale with a raised fifth degree scale that borrows the ascending form of the melodic minor scale from a minor third below or a major sixth above .


    hth.
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  4. #4
    Distinguished SOTW Member/Forum Contributor 2009
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    Default Re: Lydian augmented scale

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Price View Post
    Lydian augmented scale// major scale with raised fourth and fifth degrees
    Lydian scale with a raised fifth degree scale that borrows the ascending form of the melodic minor scale from a minor third below or a major sixth above .


    hth.
    Ouch!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Lydian augmented scale

    Ok then I've to choice?

  6. #6
    paulman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lydian augmented scale

    #9 b9 #11 b13. And maybe if it is a Cb chord, it becomes: Cb#9b9#11b13. Now I understand why my war to your chords nomenclature is justified!
    Paolo Mannelli

  7. #7
    paulman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lydian augmented scale

    "C lydian augmented" is a C lydian scale where the fifth is augmented.
    C D E F# G#A B. Why construct it beginning from the third degree of an
    A minor melodic ascending scale?
    The same thing is for "C lydian b7". It is a C lydian where the seventh is minor.
    C D E F# G A Bb. Why then to mean to the fourth degree of a G minor melodic ascending scale?
    "C alt" (that will say all and nothing) is nothing other that Gb13(#11) starting from his augmented eleventh C (tritone Gb C).
    I use this method for scale construction and it's very simple.
    Ciao. Paolo Mannelli.

  8. #8
    SOTW Administrator hakukani's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lydian augmented scale

    Quote Originally Posted by paulman View Post
    "C lydian augmented" is a C lydian scale where the fifth is augmented.
    C D E F# G#A B. Why construct it beginning from the third degree of an
    A minor melodic ascending scale?
    The same thing is for "C lydian b7". It is a C lydian where the seventh is minor.
    C D E F# G A Bb. Why then to mean to the fourth degree of a G minor melodic ascending scale?
    "C alt" (that will say all and nothing) is nothing other that Gb13(#11) starting from his augmented eleventh C (tritone Gb C).
    I use this method for scale construction and it's very simple.
    Ciao. Paolo Mannelli.
    See George Russell's Lydian Chromatic Concept, or Dave Baker's book on the same subject. It's all a matter of music theory--as with Piston, Hindemith, Schoenberg, Hanson, and Schenkar. They all have their ways of looking at harmony theoretically.

    When does your treatise come out?
    Sound guy theory of relativity: E=mc^2 (+or- 3dB)
    Sax player theory of relativity: E=mc^2 (+or- .010" at the tip)
    "Free jazz is the vegemite of the musical world. It's an acquired taste."-J. Jacques

  9. #9
    paulman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lydian augmented scale

    Quote Originally Posted by hakukani View Post
    See George Russell's Lydian Chromatic Concept, or Dave Baker's book on the same subject. It's all a matter of music theory--as with Piston, Hindemith, Schoenberg, Hanson, and Schenkar. They all have their ways of looking at harmony theoretically.

    When does your treatise come out?
    My treatise on chord nomenclature, that you cannot appreciate (as I cannot appreciate the american nomenclature, cause language problems), is born in 1974. You can read it, if you will, on the site:www.jazzitalia.net where in "lezioni" you can find my "Accordi e sigle", that is treating the complete nomenclature of 64 chord types, and my "Fourths", about fourths chords. I wrote an other book with other people: "Jazz fragments". But it's not published on internet.
    Maybe you also have written some treatise?Ciao.
    Paolo Mannelli

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