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Thread: Conn 12m fussy with mouthpieces?

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    Distinguished SOTW Member/ Forum Contributor 2010 Fungus Mungus's Avatar
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    Default Conn 12m fussy with mouthpieces?

    I have a later (N series) Bari. I'm certain this is a 12m, though it isn't marked as such on the back. I have found that if I use my Soloist C* with it, it plays really sharp. I have to pull out almost to the very end of the cork to get it close, but it won't seal pulled out so far. This same mouthpiece worked really well on a YBS-62 I played awhile back. I tried a Gale Companion on it and it played perfectly. This leads me to believe that the smaller chamber of the Soloist is throwing the intonation off. Has this been anyone else's experience?

    fm

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    Distinguished SOTW member/Official SOTW Sister bandmommy's Avatar
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    Yup, on my Martin/Pan American tenor.
    I have to use a large chamber on that one to get it to play in tune.
    Old reed players are like fine wine. They only get better with age. Tom Hagen

    Play the Music, not the instrument.

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    Rascher or a Caravan is what worked on the 10m I played.

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    Yep. I'm using a Morgan Bass/Baritone 8 that works very well (for classical). ...the chamber is so big you could just about drive a truck down it.

    I had the same problems as you (to varying degrees) with my Soloists, S80, Vandoren, Brilhart, and Meyer mpcs.

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    Distinguished SOTW Member BarrySachs's Avatar
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    12m baritones work well with the following mouthpieces for jazz:

    Meyer (Danny Bank)
    Link STM (Joe Temperley, Gary Smulyan)
    or hard rubber (Mark Lopeman)
    Runyon "Custom"
    Berg Metal (Charlie Fowlkes)
    or rubber
    Woodwind & co (Harry Carney)
    MC Gregory (Gerry Mulligan) He later played a Gale (same company as Gregory)

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    Distinguished SOTW Member/ Forum Contributor 2010 Fungus Mungus's Avatar
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    Default thanks

    Thanks for the sanity check. I have the Gale on loan, but it looks like I may have to sell the Soloist to buy the Gale.

    fm

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    Yes, many old horns work better with larger chamber mouthpieces.

    Intonation of my Martin bari is very good with a Meyer mpc (almost fully pushed on the cork) and an Otto Link HR (pushed halfway on the cork). Smaller chambered mouthpieces don't work as well, since they make the horn go very sharp.
    Grassi low A bari (1976) Meyer 9M / Martin "The Martin" tenor (1951), OL vintage Tone Edge #7
    Martin "Indiana" alto (1954), Meyer 6M / Buffet Crampon "Continentale" Bb clarinet (1972), Vandoren V360

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    Forum Contributor 2014 TomCoffey's Avatar
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    Default Mouthpiece placement

    There is a very good thread on this in the Baritone Sax heading, originally posted by Milandro on July 21, 2007. It is currently on page four of that listing. It describes the problems associated with keeping the mouthpiece too far in or out. Those of us who also play bass sax go through this on a regular basis, with the effect even greater with the bigger horn. Some bass players have experimented with cutting the neck shorter, while others (most of us, I think) look for a perfect mouthpiece fit. I was lucky in this regard, having bought a bass sax from Saxtec, who had already expertly set it up and included two mouthpieces in the sale. The sax I borrowed prior to that had some real mouthpiece sensitivty associated with it.
    I just purchased a terrific 1929 Conn Baritone Tranny from Junkdude, which seems to be working well with a Morgan mouthpiece. I'm waiting a couple of days to get used to it before I get serious with the tuner, but it sounds good now.
    There is nothing to compare with finding a good match between horn and mouthpice, for issues of intonation and response through the horn.

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    Distinguished SOTW Member SuperAction80's Avatar
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    Here is the link to the thread that Tom mentions in his post. http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=63323

    I do not play Bari that often so I'm hardly an expert on them, but I was fortunate enough to blow a few notes on a 12M for about an hour. The saxophonist who owns the horn also owns a Low Bb Mark VI (very cool horn even without the low A). He had several mouthpieces for me to try out as well. The first mouthpiece I used was an S-80 C* and intonation was everywhere. The higher you went, the sharper the pitch went. Sure enough, the same piece worked great with the VI. The second piece was an old Brilhart (not sure of the model) and it really did help the intonation. The piece felt a little big to comfortably fit in my mouth, but that probably has something to do with my lack of experience on Bari. The third piece was a Hard Rubber Link Tone Edge. It also improved the intonation, but was also too big for my tastes. The last piece was a metal Link STM. BINGO!!! Good intonation, piercing tone, and the metal piece is more narrow on the outside leading to a more comfortable feel in my mouth. I shouldn't be surprised that I favored the STM, as I prefer this model on my alto, tenor, and soprano as well.

    The 12M is mouthpiece picky, but there may be another issue and I'm surprised that it hasn't been brought up already. I also recommend having your horn looked over by a tech in order to make sure all of the key heights are where they should be. No sense in looking for the perfect mouthpiece if the horn isn't going to play correctly anyways. Your tech may also be able to give you more insight as to which piece will work better for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperAction80
    [...]The last piece was a metal Link STM. BINGO!!! Good intonation, piercing tone, and the metal piece is more narrow on the outside leading to a more comfortable feel in my mouth. I shouldn't be surprised that I favored the STM, as I prefer this model on my alto, tenor, and soprano as well. [...]
    It's interesting that you mentioned the size of the mouthpieces. I have a bunch of bari mpcs and many of them can be quite "fat" in size. For example, my early '30s "dill pickle" is so big it needs a Bass Sax lig.

    When I ordered my Morgan Bass/Baritone mpc, I was assuming that it would be at least as big as my Meyer and possibly much bigger. I was really surprised at how narrow this thing is. I'm using a Rovner 2R Tenor sax lig with it, and it is almost too big for the mpc.

    Although I play soprano more than I play bari and I'm used to pretty small mpcs, I have to admit it took me awhile to adjust to this narrow Morgan. ...but it was worth it.

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    Distinguished SOTW Member SuperAction80's Avatar
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    Little Sax, I know exactly what you mean. A few people think that I'm crazy for using an STM on soprano, but I like the bright sound and it doesn't make the horn "quack" like some players have claimed. I have the same problem you do when I switch to an S80 on sop. It feels too big. It's weird since I primarily play tenor and the biggest soprano mouthpiece is still significantly smaller than the smallest tenor piece so you think that size wouldn't an issue. I've favored the feel of the metal Link's since I first played an older 70's tenor STM back in High School . They just feel right to me and I use them on every pitch of horn that I play. Oddly my first Link purchase was for my alto. Whenever I picked up this Bari, which is a pitch of saxophone that I've only played on a handful of times, the Link again made me feel at home...ALMOST like I was playing on my tenor. I've never had many problems switching between saxophones and I attribute most of this to dividing up my practice time, but I wonder if having a standard make of mouthpiece on all of my horns has made it that much easier for me.

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    Distinguished SOTW Member/ Forum Contributor 2010 Fungus Mungus's Avatar
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    I checked the key heights the first time I noticed the problem with the Soloist. Key heights wouldn't explain the radically off intonation I was getting. While I'm sure they could use tweaking, replacing the Selmer piece has the most effect.

    fm

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    Billy K's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conn 12m fussy with mouthpieces?

    Thanks for another very interesting thread. For my recently purchased 1959 12M I have initially just settled for a Yamaha 5C mp. Yep its a cheap buy, but I am only just starting off on the bari ( I play tenor - a Yanagisawa T991 with Vandoren V16 T8 most of the time). So far I have not had any tuning issues with the 5C mouthpiece. The only "problem" so far is hitting the low 'D' straight out - it comes out an octave up.. I can play down to it no problems- I think its a matter of embouchure and practice...



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