Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

[jazzbug1]

My wife warns me to stay indoors on garbage day, as she refers to me as a "collectable".
OK- I'll bid, as it looks just like my Rudy, except the front F is a pearl button touch, rather than the recently discontinued spatula of the later 1920s Holtons. This horn looks 1931 and I have access to a repair shop with boxes of keys for the missing palm keys. "New From Ronco--
It's Box-O-Keys" Hey-- that might be a good late night infomercial.

[jazzbug1]

Hey- I won it! Around $150.00. I'll re-build it, find a decent case, and either sell it locally, or let you folks go into combat on EBay. Think about it, lust over it. M-mmm, a post Wiedoeft silver tenor, that plays like new. M-mmmm. Maybe I'll engrave "Jazzbug1 Model", where Rudy's name would have gone. Just kidding.

[geauxsax]

Whoo hoo! We want pics of progress and completed horn!

[jazzbug1]

Pics? OK- as soon as I can get more flashpowder.

[jazzbug1]

Sax arrived, packed in a heavy plastic suitcase. Serial # is 40214, which should be 1930-31. It is a Rudy tenor without the Rudy engraving, in excellent shape, except it is missing the sliding mouthpiece cylinder and it is severly stuck. Horns without cases always wind up frozen because the the air drys the oil and rusts the rods and screws. I can restore this horn and , based on my Rudy tenor, this will be a strong player with the best top end of all 20s tenors. It will deserve a big EBay battle.

[jazzbug1]

BRASS RUDY Bb TENOR on EBay. #230352605593 This horn may be a great player, but it is missing the front F key (not noted). This particular key could be made, but is a spatula type, which is hard to fabricate. The case is an original Holton case and the mouthpiece could bring back some of your cost. BEWARE; I can't imagine anyone ordering a high-end horn such as the Rudy and not ordering it in at least silver plate. My experience with horns leads me to believe that this horn WAS silver, but was stripped and re-built, when silver horns were out of style by the 1940s. I have seen this a number of times in 1920s horns . There is always tell-tale speck of silver that stays on the horn. This horn is surey a great player, but I would not advise adding to a Rudy collection, as it is not original. The front F could be made for maybe $100 and it might be even a brighter horn than original without the silver plate.

[jazzbug1]

Forgot to mention. This "Rudyesque" tenor has the original Holton pads, which shows in the beginning of the 1930s, Holton was still using the old-fashioned white pads with a stitch in the center. By this time, Conn, King, and Buescher (and Martin?) were using metal resonator pads, which are far superior in producing a bright jazzy sound, which certainly didn't help the sales of Holtons to professional players. That's why I think the "Res-O-Tone" model of 1934-35 was their first resonator pad saxophone. The lack of resonator pads certainly had to hurt their sales at the blossoming of the big band era. Perhaps this is where the reputation of Holtons as a school horn arose, as a pro would want a stand-out sound in a four or five sax section, rather than the 1920s sax section of 2-3 horns. I'm still unsure if the resonators were an extra charge for some brands, especially Holton. I would love to see a 1930s Holton catalogue.

[saxplayer77]

Hi Everyone, I have a 1929 Rudy Alto (#35591)in really great shape with the original case, neck, mouthpiece etc. Have had it for many years. Any idea what this piece might be worth - and where might be the best place to offer it for sale? Thanks!

[soybean]

This "Rudyesque" tenor has the original Holton pads, … I think the "Res-O-Tone" model of 1934-35 was their first resonator pad saxophone.

I love the name Rudyesque for the non-inscribed Rudys!

Your theory about resonators makes a lot of sense.

[Walter Webb]

Hey Jazzbug, how the heck do they strip off a silver plating? Regarding this Rudy tenor (230352605593): the engraving is looking a little thin and buffed out.
Walter

[jazzbug1]

A cyanide bath will take the plating right off. That's how silver and gold was (and still is in some places) plated. The gold or silver anode (- charge Direct Current) is placed in a sodium cyanide solution (with water). The object to be plated is linked to the + charge. The atoms of silver or gold are charged negative and flow through the solution to the positively charged horn. When the plating is thick enough (time and density of solution determine this), the horn is done. If you reverse the charges, the plate will migrate off the - horn to the positive metal bar in the solution. It was a very simple and cheap process. The licensing and disposal rule for cyanide have become very stringent in the last 20 years, so this has prevented many small repair shops from having plating or de-plating facilities. Now there are safe brush/electrical systems for doing small spots or keys, but to plate a horn takes a large tank. I hope they have found a safe substitute for cyanide by now, as many platers used to dump their waste down the drain or in a field. (it made a great weed killer).

[jazzbug1]

Oh -- forgot to add. The engraving on stripped horns looks weak because the engraving was done on the final plated horn, so when the plating was removed, some of the depth of the engraving was removed with it. People have argued for years about buffing changing the tone of a horn. Talk to a tech and you will find the buffing is used minimally to polish off the microns thick layer of tarnish from the brass. No one would waste all the compound and labor to buff a horn down so far as to change its sound. The one exception would be the buffing required to even out a pitted surface, but this is not the norm. (Have I started another controversy here?) I think the removal of silver and especially the silver/gold on gold horns changes the tone to a brightr sound. Compare a brass to a silver to a gold horn. They get progressively mellower, as the gold plating is over silver plate, which adds considerable thickness to the horn. This was done as gold will plate on silver, but not brass. My gold Holton C melody (exactly as used by Frank Trumbauer) is noticeably sweeter than my silver Holton. My brass Chu baritone is very bright, as it was stripped. Gerry Mulligan used brass Conns of this vintage and produced a modern, bright sound.

[stewtre]

I have a silver Holton Alto Sax, and I believe the SN to be 1035, less than mint, still great condition. Anyone have an idea the year it was manufactured? Everything I've come across dates it 1904-05.

[AlmoSax]

can u tell me what year this holton is 38524, silver matt fin. with gold washed bell nice horn, but how do they play?It's a teror sax and I'm impressed

[JayePDX]

1917.....sounds nice, can you post a pic ????

[geauxsax]

Almo,
Check this out for playing tendencies:

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=71134

Pics of my horn, very close in serial number, post #10

[bruce bailey]

I'm getting ready to list my Holton alto for sale. I don't remember if I put th eserial number down here but it is #29395, satin gold plate with burnished keys, engraving and inside of bell. It has all the usuall extra keys but not the Rudy style low C arrangement. Should I call it a Holton "standard" model? A really nice horn with the metal/bakelite mouthpiece, great original case (brass hardware) and even the satin gold plated lyre marked Holton. I was thinking of $950 and need some help on the value. Really great shape with newish White Roo pads/metal resos. Let me know what I have!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12157552@N02/3033234108/

[geauxsax]

Wow Bruce--terrific looking little alto. I guess it's just called an Elkhorn or Revelation (even before they actually wrote Revelation on them). It certainly has all the bells and whistles though--how's she play?

[jazzbug1]

It might go locally to someone who plays it for close to your price, but on EBay, I'm thinking $400-600.00. A You Tube demo would help. I am waiting for Fall to sell horns, as Summer prices are lower, especially this year. The Wiedoeft models command a premium and are now selling for more than the Conn altos from the 20s. For my taste, the Holton alto has a brighter sound than the Conn and a better top end. This superior upper register advantage is most noticeable on the tenors and C melodies. Good luck, Bruce.

[jazzbug1]

It might go locally to someone who plays it for close to your price, but on EBay, I'm thinking $400-600.00. A You Tube demo would help. I am waiting for Fall to sell horns, as Summer prices are lower, especially this year. The Wiedoeft models command a premium and are now selling for more than the Conn altos from the 20s. For my taste, the Holton alto has a brighter sound than the Conn and a better top end. This superior upper register advantage is most noticeable on the tenors and C melodies. Good luck, Bruce.