P Mauriat
Antigua Winds

Thread: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

  1. #381
    Walter Webb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    NE of Sacramento, CA, but not quite Reno, NV
    Posts
    290

    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Regarding this Holton C-melody: What year was this made?
    #9501 sp http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting

    When did Holton start the floral bell engraving, and abandon this sparse name-only and the 5 little lines above? When did they add the master keys?

    Second: I can't blame the seller for the terrible fotos. They don't know any better, but I can't tell if it has the hi F spatula due to a lack of side shots and close ups.

    Third: Recently there was talk of a Couturier-Holton connection. This one seems to have beveled tone holes like a Martin. Is it a real Couturier or a stencil of something else? http://cgi.ebay.com/1930s-40s-Silver...mZ230326232749

    Thanks, Walter of Nevada City, CA USA

  2. #382
    Distinguished SOTW Member/Technician
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    15,702

    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    The first one comes up as a dead link for me. The second one was made by Courturier before L&H and Holton.

  3. #383
    Content Expert/Distinguished SOTW Member LaPorte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Northrhine-Westfalia; Germany
    Posts
    823

    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Regarding this Holton C-melody: What year was this made?

    Early in 1922

    When did Holton start the floral bell engraving...?

    1922 on saxophones, on brass much earlier.

    When did they add the master keys?

    The 'master keys' were included from the very start 1917 in Chicago.

    ...but I can't tell if it has the hi F spatula due to a lack of side shots and close ups.

    It does not have spatula front 'F'. Front 'F' was reintroduced 1926.



    Recently there was talk of a Couturier-Holton connection.

    Ernest Albert Couturier and Frank Holton were friends. Together they designed great cornets and trumpets.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/1930s-40s-Silver...mZ230326232749[/QUOTE]

    This one seems to have beveled tone holes like a Martin.

    Similiar, not exactly like a Martin.

    Is it a real Couturier ...?

    Yes, a real 'E.A. Couturier Co', no stencil.



    From #9, Lyon&Healy alto sax:

    "1916, Couturier formed his own company with investors, bought out Seidel Co. in Elkhart (anybody seen any instruments by William Seidel?) and moved there in 1918 (maybe late '17 still searching) moved to LaPorte in Oct. 1918 and went into receivership Oct. 4,1923. Lyon & Healy bought the factory in 1924 and continued to make saxophones and trumpets ... in LaPorte (marked Chicago) until April 1928 when they sold the equipment to Holton.
    The last Couturier serial numbers were late 10,000, apparently L&H continued the series and went to about 19,000, then made some with 200 and 201,000 serial numbers." (Steve Mumford)

    I'm working on a 'E.A.Couturier/Lyon&Healy Reconstructed Serial Number List'. SN# 16932 can undoubtly be applied to the year 1925. Made by Lyon&Healy in the LaPorte factory; no stencil.

    Felix
    Couturier straight soprano > Claude Lakey 7* > Vandoren java / marca jazz 2.0
    Couturier alto > Jody Jazz esp 8 > m.a.r.c.a. jazz 2.0
    Couturier tenor> Jody Jazz esp 7* > m.a.r.c.a jazz 2.5


    "Why would I play on an ordinary, modern horn if it doesn't bring any special character to the music?" Al Mc Lean

  4. #384
    Content Expert/Distinguished SOTW Member LaPorte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Northrhine-Westfalia; Germany
    Posts
    823

    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Couturier straight soprano > Claude Lakey 7* > Vandoren java / marca jazz 2.0
    Couturier alto > Jody Jazz esp 8 > m.a.r.c.a. jazz 2.0
    Couturier tenor> Jody Jazz esp 7* > m.a.r.c.a jazz 2.5


    "Why would I play on an ordinary, modern horn if it doesn't bring any special character to the music?" Al Mc Lean

  5. #385
    Content Expert/Distinguished SOTW Member LaPorte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Northrhine-Westfalia; Germany
    Posts
    823

    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Quote Originally Posted by LaPorte View Post

    Ernest Albert Couturier and Frank Holton were friends. Together they designed great cornets and trumpets.
    Here is one (ca.1912), note the floral engraving on the bell:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Frank-Holton-New...3A1%7C294%3A50
    Couturier straight soprano > Claude Lakey 7* > Vandoren java / marca jazz 2.0
    Couturier alto > Jody Jazz esp 8 > m.a.r.c.a. jazz 2.0
    Couturier tenor> Jody Jazz esp 7* > m.a.r.c.a jazz 2.5


    "Why would I play on an ordinary, modern horn if it doesn't bring any special character to the music?" Al Mc Lean

  6. #386
    Distinguished SOTW Member
    Forum Contributor 2014
    soybean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    4,132

    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Until we get a sharper photo, this will have to suffice:

    Life is too short for long tones

  7. #387

    Smile Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    I have a c melod sax that says 'Made By Coutuier La Porte Ind with small flower engraved . . . stamped on back is C 8624 L . . . no front F key . . . I also have a King tenor 'The H. N. White Co. Cleveland O . . . U. S. 264481' . . . I wonder when they were made?

  8. #388
    Distinguished SOTW Member/Technician
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    15,702

    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    The C melody would be someime in the early 20s and the King about 1942.

  9. #389
    Content Expert/Distinguished SOTW Member LaPorte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Northrhine-Westfalia; Germany
    Posts
    823

    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Thank you for the info, Jimzeen.

    As Bruce Bailey said, your Couturier C melody (silverplated?) is built in the early twenties, most probably 1923. I've added it to the E.A.Couturier List.


    Quote Originally Posted by LaPorte View Post

    'Made By * Couturier * LaPorte * IND.'

    Soprano
    # 10428 silverplated, goldplated keys

    Alto
    # 654x
    # 8807 relacquered*
    # 8865 silverplated
    # 9326 s.p.*
    # 9363 s.p. missing neck

    Tenor
    # 69xx s.p.
    # 7715 s.p.

    C melody
    # 7209 s.p.
    # 7662 s.p.
    # 7818 g.l.
    # 7881 g.l.
    # 7922 s.p.
    # 8311 s.p.
    # 8527 s.p. special engraving
    # 8624

    http://cgi.ebay.com/COUTURICH-C-MELO...QQcmdZViewItem

    Felix
    This list containes only SN before the Couturier Band Instrument Company went into receivership Oct. 4 th 1923. Stencils (e.g. Gretsch) are not included.

    Updated 03-01-2009
    Couturier straight soprano > Claude Lakey 7* > Vandoren java / marca jazz 2.0
    Couturier alto > Jody Jazz esp 8 > m.a.r.c.a. jazz 2.0
    Couturier tenor> Jody Jazz esp 7* > m.a.r.c.a jazz 2.5


    "Why would I play on an ordinary, modern horn if it doesn't bring any special character to the music?" Al Mc Lean

  10. #390
    Distinguished SOTW Member and Champion of the Holton geauxsax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Little Rhody
    Posts
    1,363

    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Quote Originally Posted by LaPorte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by geauxsax View Post
    Are there Courturier saxes marked as Couturiers? If so, does anyone have one?
    Here is a C melody with magnificant engraving SN#8527, made by the E.A. Couturier Band Instrument Company 1923 in LaPorte:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/1930s-40s-Silver...QQcmdZViewItem

    Felix
    This C Mel sure got decent money--600+ for silver plate needing new pads/overhaul!

  11. #391
    Content Expert/Distinguished SOTW Member LaPorte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Northrhine-Westfalia; Germany
    Posts
    823

    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Quote Originally Posted by geauxsax View Post

    This C Mel sure got decent money--600+ for silver plate needing new pads/overhaul!
    The Couturier Alto saxes sound really great (my favourite ). Jazzbug1 knows how the Couturier C melody's sound. Hope he will tell us occasionally. The sold one above has quite a rare engraving, which I never saw before.

    Felix
    Couturier straight soprano > Claude Lakey 7* > Vandoren java / marca jazz 2.0
    Couturier alto > Jody Jazz esp 8 > m.a.r.c.a. jazz 2.0
    Couturier tenor> Jody Jazz esp 7* > m.a.r.c.a jazz 2.5


    "Why would I play on an ordinary, modern horn if it doesn't bring any special character to the music?" Al Mc Lean

  12. #392

    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Thank You Bruce Baily, Jimzeen

  13. #393

    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Thank You LaPorte, jimzeen

  14. #394
    Content Expert/Distinguished SOTW Member LaPorte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Northrhine-Westfalia; Germany
    Posts
    823
    Couturier straight soprano > Claude Lakey 7* > Vandoren java / marca jazz 2.0
    Couturier alto > Jody Jazz esp 8 > m.a.r.c.a. jazz 2.0
    Couturier tenor> Jody Jazz esp 7* > m.a.r.c.a jazz 2.5


    "Why would I play on an ordinary, modern horn if it doesn't bring any special character to the music?" Al Mc Lean

  15. #395
    Content Expert/Distinguished SOTW Member LaPorte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Northrhine-Westfalia; Germany
    Posts
    823

    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Interesting Holton logo inside the original case of a REVELATION I alto #12573 (1923):

    http://s546.photobucket.com/albums/h...1922/mq343.jpg

    I've found some more indications that Holton kept a branch or head office in chicago after starting new in Elkhorn, e.g. the brand 'Beaufort American' marked 'Chicago' which he used together with C.G. Conn.
    Last edited by LaPorte; 03-03-2009 at 08:53 PM.
    Couturier straight soprano > Claude Lakey 7* > Vandoren java / marca jazz 2.0
    Couturier alto > Jody Jazz esp 8 > m.a.r.c.a. jazz 2.0
    Couturier tenor> Jody Jazz esp 7* > m.a.r.c.a jazz 2.5


    "Why would I play on an ordinary, modern horn if it doesn't bring any special character to the music?" Al Mc Lean

  16. #396
    Content Expert/Distinguished SOTW Member LaPorte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Northrhine-Westfalia; Germany
    Posts
    823

    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Quote Originally Posted by LaPorte View Post
    Early Holton's Serial Number Registry (four digits only)

    C-melody

    #9501 sp

    Alto

    #6311 sp


    http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-FRANK-HO...3A1%7C294%3A50

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting
    The list grows 100%.
    Couturier straight soprano > Claude Lakey 7* > Vandoren java / marca jazz 2.0
    Couturier alto > Jody Jazz esp 8 > m.a.r.c.a. jazz 2.0
    Couturier tenor> Jody Jazz esp 7* > m.a.r.c.a jazz 2.5


    "Why would I play on an ordinary, modern horn if it doesn't bring any special character to the music?" Al Mc Lean

  17. #397
    Distinguished SOTW Member jazzbug1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Western New York
    Posts
    392

    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Farina-- Please look carefully at the bottom of the Wiedoeft brochure. Mine says in fine print, March 1, 1929. My copy must have been printed during peak production, as the Rudy models (probably 95% were altos) are mostly from 1929.

  18. #398
    Content Expert/Distinguished SOTW Member LaPorte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Northrhine-Westfalia; Germany
    Posts
    823

    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Quote Originally Posted by jazzbug1 View Post
    ...as my brochure introducing the Rudy model is printed "March, 1928".
    "...Mine says in fine print, March 1, 1929."

    1928 or 1929? Or do you refer to two different brochures? Would you like to post a photo (or some) on SOTW?

    Felix
    Couturier straight soprano > Claude Lakey 7* > Vandoren java / marca jazz 2.0
    Couturier alto > Jody Jazz esp 8 > m.a.r.c.a. jazz 2.0
    Couturier tenor> Jody Jazz esp 7* > m.a.r.c.a jazz 2.5


    "Why would I play on an ordinary, modern horn if it doesn't bring any special character to the music?" Al Mc Lean

  19. #399

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    North West of england
    Posts
    43

    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Hi Jazzbug, I've looked very carefully and I can't find any date relating to the RW models apart from the 1927 quoted in the text..... sorry!

  20. #400
    Distinguished SOTW Member/Technician
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    15,702

    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Do the Courturier models also ahve the L shaped G# lever that works the low C# too, the interlocking palm keys and the double hinged neck like the L&Hs do? Here is one of mine and I was wondering how different it is from the Courturier and Courturier Holtons.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/12157552@N02/3032358243/

Page 20 of 41 FirstFirst 1234567891011121314151617181920212223242526272829303132333435363738394041 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •