Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

[Walter Webb]

Regarding this Holton C-melody: What year was this made?
#9501 sp http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting

When did Holton start the floral bell engraving, and abandon this sparse name-only and the 5 little lines above? When did they add the master keys?

Second: I can't blame the seller for the terrible fotos. They don't know any better, but I can't tell if it has the hi F spatula due to a lack of side shots and close ups.

Third: Recently there was talk of a Couturier-Holton connection. This one seems to have beveled tone holes like a Martin. Is it a real Couturier or a stencil of something else? http://cgi.ebay.com/1930s-40s-Silver...mZ230326232749

Thanks, Walter of Nevada City, CA USA

[bruce bailey]

The first one comes up as a dead link for me. The second one was made by Courturier before L&H and Holton.

[LaPorte]

Regarding this Holton C-melody: What year was this made?

Early in 1922

When did Holton start the floral bell engraving...?

1922 on saxophones, on brass much earlier.

When did they add the master keys?

The 'master keys' were included from the very start 1917 in Chicago.

...but I can't tell if it has the hi F spatula due to a lack of side shots and close ups.

It does not have spatula front 'F'. Front 'F' was reintroduced 1926.



Recently there was talk of a Couturier-Holton connection.

Ernest Albert Couturier and Frank Holton were friends. Together they designed great cornets and trumpets.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1930s-40s-Silver...mZ230326232749[/QUOTE]

This one seems to have beveled tone holes like a Martin.

Similiar, not exactly like a Martin.

Is it a real Couturier ...?

Yes, a real 'E.A. Couturier Co', no stencil.



From #9, Lyon&Healy alto sax:

"1916, Couturier formed his own company with investors, bought out Seidel Co. in Elkhart (anybody seen any instruments by William Seidel?) and moved there in 1918 (maybe late '17 still searching) moved to LaPorte in Oct. 1918 and went into receivership Oct. 4,1923. Lyon & Healy bought the factory in 1924 and continued to make saxophones and trumpets ... in LaPorte (marked Chicago) until April 1928 when they sold the equipment to Holton.
The last Couturier serial numbers were late 10,000, apparently L&H continued the series and went to about 19,000, then made some with 200 and 201,000 serial numbers." (Steve Mumford)

I'm working on a 'E.A.Couturier/Lyon&Healy Reconstructed Serial Number List'. SN# 16932 can undoubtly be applied to the year 1925. Made by Lyon&Healy in the LaPorte factory; no stencil.

Felix

[LaPorte]

C-melody #9501
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting

[LaPorte]

Ernest Albert Couturier and Frank Holton were friends. Together they designed great cornets and trumpets.

Here is one (ca.1912), note the floral engraving on the bell:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Frank-Holton-New...3A1%7C294%3A50

[soybean]

Until we get a sharper photo, this will have to suffice:

[jimzeen]

I have a c melod sax that says 'Made By Coutuier La Porte Ind with small flower engraved . . . stamped on back is C 8624 L . . . no front F key . . . I also have a King tenor 'The H. N. White Co. Cleveland O . . . U. S. 264481' . . . I wonder when they were made?

[bruce bailey]

The C melody would be someime in the early 20s and the King about 1942.

[LaPorte]

Thank you for the info, Jimzeen.

As Bruce Bailey said, your Couturier C melody (silverplated?) is built in the early twenties, most probably 1923. I've added it to the E.A.Couturier List.

'Made By * Couturier * LaPorte * IND.'

Soprano
# 10428 silverplated, goldplated keys

Alto
# 654x
# 8807 relacquered*
# 8865 silverplated
# 9326 s.p.*
# 9363 s.p. missing neck

Tenor
# 69xx s.p.
# 7715 s.p.

C melody
# 7209 s.p.
# 7662 s.p.
# 7818 g.l.
# 7881 g.l.
# 7922 s.p.
# 8311 s.p.
# 8527 s.p. special engraving
# 8624

http://cgi.ebay.com/COUTURICH-C-MELO...QQcmdZViewItem

Felix

This list containes only SN before the Couturier Band Instrument Company went into receivership Oct. 4 th 1923. Stencils (e.g. Gretsch) are not included.

Updated 03-01-2009

[geauxsax]

Are there Courturier saxes marked as Couturiers? If so, does anyone have one?

Here is a C melody with magnificant engraving SN#8527, made by the E.A. Couturier Band Instrument Company 1923 in LaPorte:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1930s-40s-Silver...QQcmdZViewItem

Felix

This C Mel sure got decent money--600+ for silver plate needing new pads/overhaul!

[LaPorte]

This C Mel sure got decent money--600+ for silver plate needing new pads/overhaul!

The Couturier Alto saxes sound really great (my favourite ). Jazzbug1 knows how the Couturier C melody's sound. Hope he will tell us occasionally. The sold one above has quite a rare engraving, which I never saw before.

Felix

[jimzeen]

Thank You Bruce Baily, Jimzeen

[jimzeen]

Thank You LaPorte, jimzeen

[LaPorte]

Thanks to Farina_man we have sharper pictures now:

http://s546.photobucket.com/albums/h...gue1309004.jpg

http://s546.photobucket.com/albums/h...gue1309003.jpg

http://s546.photobucket.com/albums/h...gue1309001.jpg

http://s546.photobucket.com/albums/h...gue1309002.jpg

Felix

[LaPorte]

Interesting Holton logo inside the original case of a REVELATION I alto #12573 (1923):

http://s546.photobucket.com/albums/h...1922/mq343.jpg

I've found some more indications that Holton kept a branch or head office in chicago after starting new in Elkhorn, e.g. the brand 'Beaufort American' marked 'Chicago' which he used together with C.G. Conn.

[LaPorte]

Early Holton's Serial Number Registry (four digits only)

C-melody

#9501 sp

Alto

#6311 sp


http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-FRANK-HO...3A1%7C294%3A50

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting

The list grows 100%.

[jazzbug1]

Farina-- Please look carefully at the bottom of the Wiedoeft brochure. Mine says in fine print, March 1, 1929. My copy must have been printed during peak production, as the Rudy models (probably 95% were altos) are mostly from 1929.

[LaPorte]

...as my brochure introducing the Rudy model is printed "March, 1928".

"...Mine says in fine print, March 1, 1929."

1928 or 1929? Or do you refer to two different brochures? Would you like to post a photo (or some) on SOTW?

Felix

[Farina_man]

Hi Jazzbug, I've looked very carefully and I can't find any date relating to the RW models apart from the 1927 quoted in the text..... sorry!

[bruce bailey]

Do the Courturier models also ahve the L shaped G# lever that works the low C# too, the interlocking palm keys and the double hinged neck like the L&Hs do? Here is one of mine and I was wondering how different it is from the Courturier and Courturier Holtons.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12157552@N02/3032358243/