Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

[LaPorte]

Off topic:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting

http://drrick.com/Vintage%20Sax%20Collection.htm

Number 9. is the "Perfect Curved Soprano" made by Lyon and Healy in La Porte ! Not made by Martin !!

Felix

[jazzbug1]

The serial number of the aforementioned Rudy alto (#36979) is the highest Rudy # I've seen. It probably reaches into 1930. I recall seeing a GOLD-plated Rudy BARITONE on EBay about a year ago. It was missing the neck. It must have been one of only a dozen or so produced and may have been the only gold Rudy baritone. I was tempted, as it only went for $400-500.00. Anyone know of it's whereabouts?

[jazzbug1]

Take note of EBay #290280059003-- It is a very early Holton C or Bb tenor Serial #848. It has the front F which was soon discontinued, but then revived in the mid 1920s.

[LaPorte]

Take note of EBay #290280059003-- It is a very early Holton C or Bb tenor Serial #848. It has the front F which was soon discontinued, but then revived in the mid 1920s.

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-HOLTON-S...QQcmdZViewItem

Undoubtly a Bb tenor, the earliest (and only Chicago made) one I've seen. Any idea what has happened with the silver plating? The plating of my Chicago made Holton alto (project horn) is in very good condition.

[LaPorte]

Frank Holton began producing saxophones in Chicago (Revelation model) probably 1917 (Reference:Leblanc). The production in Elkhorn began spring (prob. April 1918; Ref.: Holton Loyalist). Here are the serial numbers from following early 'pre-Elkhorn' saxophones, engraving:"Made by Frank Holton Co Chicago", I've documented:

# 639 Eb alto
# 759 Eb alto
# 848 Bb tenor
# 1189 Eb alto

Felix

Thanks to jazzbug1 my humble list of Chicago made Holton saxes grows 33%.

[LaPorte]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1937-Hol...QQcmdZViewItem

Another Holton tenor well played, but in remarkably good condition in nice original case: A Revelation III engraved 'REVELATION' from 1937 SN# 120991. Fotos are worth to be saved I think as well as some other Holton ebay finds of the last time.

[LaPorte]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lyon-and-Healy-S...QQcmdZViewItem

Bruce Bailey?

[bruce bailey]

I was the first bidder....Too bad the thumb ring was replaced with a thumb rest (I assume).

[jazzbug1]

As to the early Holton tenor:I have seen a number of silver-plated horns that were stripped to brass, then lacquered. This was probably in the 1940s-50s when high school students or amateur players didn't want those "old silver horns" (my brother was one of them). There are always a few tell-tale specks of silver left somewhere on the horn and the engraving is faint, as the scribing was done on top of the silver. The stripping was done in a cyanide bath. Hope they rinsed them well.

[jazzbug1]

Concerning the Revelation tenor Mr. LaPorte mentions: Look closely-- Do I see a Rudy type sliding cork on the neck"? That's certainly a maximum size G# key. I wonder if the conical dimensions are the same as my Rudy tenor. My tenor has a remarkable upper register, which sounds clean and clear like a C melody, while it retains a full bottom end sound. I was so impressed, I sold my Conn 10M, which most players would think was crazy. But I am crazy, so it was expected!

[geauxsax]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1937-Hol...QQcmdZViewItem

Another Holton tenor well played, but in remarkably good condition in nice original case: A Revelation III engraved 'REVELATION' from 1937 SN# 120991. Fotos are worth to be saved I think as well as some other Holton ebay finds of the last time.

Oh--I posted about this on the "Modern Vintage" thread too. I just noticed the "Revelation" engraved on it. What about the model number though? The seller says it's a 243, but the numbers are so small, I can't tell. Perhaps "213" instead? I tried enlarging th pic, but it just got fuzzy.

[LaPorte]

Oh--I posted about this on the "Modern Vintage" thread too. I just noticed the "Revelation" engraved on it. What about the model number though? The seller says it's a 243, but the numbers are so small, I can't tell. Perhaps "213" instead? I tried enlarging th pic, but it just got fuzzy.

geauxsax from 'Modern Vintage Holtons':

"How about this tenor from ebay? I'm not questioing the auction at all--seems fine to me. I'm just curious about the model and how it fits with other models. It says it is a 243--and appears to back it up with a pic of the sn (model # above sn--maybe it says 213 instead though???). But the sn is significantly earlier than my 232 altos (would think their sn's would be contemporary with 242 tenors, right?) The horn (but not neck) looks like a 24X eries horn, but the engraving style and the neck are more akin to earlier models like Revelations. The LH pinky cluster doesn't look like the 243 pics I've seen either."

On a sharp enlarging the number says "213".

Holton's fundamental model structure is very simple:

1. Professional Line (since 1917): REVELATION
2. Student Line (since 1928): COLLEGIATE

What about 'Wiedoeft model' or 'ResoTone'?
Both are special editions deriving from the REVELATION (Ib or rather III)

Of course REVELATION and COLLEGIATE were modernized through the years: Completely new (incl. different bore/new proportions): REVELATION II compared to REVELATION I and COLLEGIATE II compared to COLLEGIATE I; moderately different: REVELATION III compared to REVELATION II.

We can say I, II and III are series (not serial-!) numbers as well as 201, 204(ResoTone) 213 (REVELATION III tenor).

For better understanding and classification my suggestion is regarding the the REVELATION III as transitional series beginning ca. 1935. REVELATION III has a lot of modern features, but the traditional front engraving Holton used from 1917 (type) ca. 1921 (floral design).

In short: We have the terms I, II, and III for the older vintage Holtons and the 'three digit series' for the 'modern vintage Holtons', which differenciate (in addition) between alto, tenor, bari (second digit!). Also REVELATION and COLLEGIATE got different three-digit-numbers as terms of series.

Consequently the REVELATION III is a transitional saxophone which has both: 'classical' engraving including 'REVELATION' and a three digit series number.

My impression is that the three digit system was not handled very strictly through the years (see also #171 of this thread, of which terminology has to be slightly updated now).

Felix

[LaPorte]

Concerning the Revelation tenor Mr. LaPorte mentions: Look closely-- Do I see a Rudy type sliding cork on the neck"? That's certainly a maximum size G# key. I wonder if the conical dimensions are the same as my Rudy tenor. My tenor has a remarkable upper register, which sounds clean and clear like a C melody, while it retains a full bottom end sound. I was so impressed, I sold my Conn 10M, which most players would think was crazy. But I am crazy, so it was expected!

I agree, there is indeed a Rudy type sliding cork on the neck.

Conical dimensions: This is personally one of the most interesting questions for me. I'm pretty shure that this REVELATION III has different bore (supposed to be bigger at the beginning of the tube) and different proportions compared to the 'Rudy Wiedoeft model' which is essentially a REVELATION I. There was a fundamental change from the REVELATION I to II (geauxsax' tenor!).

[LaPorte]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting

Probably no Holton. Martin? Anybody who knows?

[bruce bailey]

I would say either a Martin or IBIco. horn. Really rough and I wouldn't bother trying to fix it.

[talen03]

Do you know what the model shown in post #257 is? I just bought it for my daughter.

[LaPorte]

Do you know what the model shown in post #257 is? I just bought it for my daughter.

The model shown in #257 is a Revelation series Ib (see model list #80) made in early 1927.
This saxophone is of great interest for dating / reconstruction of the SN time line.
Are you the new owner?

[talen03]

Yes I am the new owner. We just received the sax today. Needs some pads but other than that is in really good shape for its age. Not really familiar with Holtons but my daughter really liked it! Why no cork on the neck? Has original mouthpiece. Along with the paperwork and all.
Thanks for all the info here!

[bruce bailey]

The cork is on the sliding piece with the screw. The cork assemblly fits into the mouthpiece all the way and to tune, you slide the bit and tighten the screw. Don't lose the little bit as they are not available.

[LaPorte]

I would say either a Martin or IBIco. horn. Really rough and I wouldn't bother trying to fix it.

Thank you, Bruce Bailey. Just this moment the answer came up: IBIco=
Indiana Band Instrument Company!