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Thread: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

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    Content Expert/Distinguished SOTW Member LaPorte's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Off topic:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting

    http://drrick.com/Vintage%20Sax%20Collection.htm

    Number 9. is the "Perfect Curved Soprano" made by Lyon and Healy in La Porte ! Not made by Martin !!

    Felix
    Couturier straight soprano > Claude Lakey 7* > Vandoren java / marca jazz 2.0
    Couturier alto > Jody Jazz esp 8 > m.a.r.c.a. jazz 2.0
    Couturier tenor> Jody Jazz esp 7* > m.a.r.c.a jazz 2.5


    "Why would I play on an ordinary, modern horn if it doesn't bring any special character to the music?" Al Mc Lean

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    Distinguished SOTW Member jazzbug1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    The serial number of the aforementioned Rudy alto (#36979) is the highest Rudy # I've seen. It probably reaches into 1930. I recall seeing a GOLD-plated Rudy BARITONE on EBay about a year ago. It was missing the neck. It must have been one of only a dozen or so produced and may have been the only gold Rudy baritone. I was tempted, as it only went for $400-500.00. Anyone know of it's whereabouts?

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    Distinguished SOTW Member jazzbug1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Take note of EBay #290280059003-- It is a very early Holton C or Bb tenor Serial #848. It has the front F which was soon discontinued, but then revived in the mid 1920s.

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    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Quote Originally Posted by jazzbug1 View Post
    Take note of EBay #290280059003-- It is a very early Holton C or Bb tenor Serial #848. It has the front F which was soon discontinued, but then revived in the mid 1920s.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-HOLTON-S...QQcmdZViewItem

    Undoubtly a Bb tenor, the earliest (and only Chicago made) one I've seen. Any idea what has happened with the silver plating? The plating of my Chicago made Holton alto (project horn) is in very good condition.
    Couturier straight soprano > Claude Lakey 7* > Vandoren java / marca jazz 2.0
    Couturier alto > Jody Jazz esp 8 > m.a.r.c.a. jazz 2.0
    Couturier tenor> Jody Jazz esp 7* > m.a.r.c.a jazz 2.5


    "Why would I play on an ordinary, modern horn if it doesn't bring any special character to the music?" Al Mc Lean

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    Content Expert/Distinguished SOTW Member LaPorte's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Quote Originally Posted by LaPorte View Post
    Frank Holton began producing saxophones in Chicago (Revelation model) probably 1917 (Reference:Leblanc). The production in Elkhorn began spring (prob. April 1918; Ref.: Holton Loyalist). Here are the serial numbers from following early 'pre-Elkhorn' saxophones, engraving:"Made by Frank Holton Co Chicago", I've documented:

    # 639 Eb alto
    # 759 Eb alto
    # 848 Bb tenor
    # 1189 Eb alto

    Felix
    Thanks to jazzbug1 my humble list of Chicago made Holton saxes grows 33%.
    Couturier straight soprano > Claude Lakey 7* > Vandoren java / marca jazz 2.0
    Couturier alto > Jody Jazz esp 8 > m.a.r.c.a. jazz 2.0
    Couturier tenor> Jody Jazz esp 7* > m.a.r.c.a jazz 2.5


    "Why would I play on an ordinary, modern horn if it doesn't bring any special character to the music?" Al Mc Lean

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    Content Expert/Distinguished SOTW Member LaPorte's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1937-Hol...QQcmdZViewItem

    Another Holton tenor well played, but in remarkably good condition in nice original case: A Revelation III engraved 'REVELATION' from 1937 SN# 120991. Fotos are worth to be saved I think as well as some other Holton ebay finds of the last time.
    Couturier straight soprano > Claude Lakey 7* > Vandoren java / marca jazz 2.0
    Couturier alto > Jody Jazz esp 8 > m.a.r.c.a. jazz 2.0
    Couturier tenor> Jody Jazz esp 7* > m.a.r.c.a jazz 2.5


    "Why would I play on an ordinary, modern horn if it doesn't bring any special character to the music?" Al Mc Lean

  7. #267
    Content Expert/Distinguished SOTW Member LaPorte's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Couturier straight soprano > Claude Lakey 7* > Vandoren java / marca jazz 2.0
    Couturier alto > Jody Jazz esp 8 > m.a.r.c.a. jazz 2.0
    Couturier tenor> Jody Jazz esp 7* > m.a.r.c.a jazz 2.5


    "Why would I play on an ordinary, modern horn if it doesn't bring any special character to the music?" Al Mc Lean

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    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    I was the first bidder....Too bad the thumb ring was replaced with a thumb rest (I assume).

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    Distinguished SOTW Member jazzbug1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    As to the early Holton tenor:I have seen a number of silver-plated horns that were stripped to brass, then lacquered. This was probably in the 1940s-50s when high school students or amateur players didn't want those "old silver horns" (my brother was one of them). There are always a few tell-tale specks of silver left somewhere on the horn and the engraving is faint, as the scribing was done on top of the silver. The stripping was done in a cyanide bath. Hope they rinsed them well.

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    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Concerning the Revelation tenor Mr. LaPorte mentions: Look closely-- Do I see a Rudy type sliding cork on the neck"? That's certainly a maximum size G# key. I wonder if the conical dimensions are the same as my Rudy tenor. My tenor has a remarkable upper register, which sounds clean and clear like a C melody, while it retains a full bottom end sound. I was so impressed, I sold my Conn 10M, which most players would think was crazy. But I am crazy, so it was expected!

  11. #271
    Distinguished SOTW Member and Champion of the Holton geauxsax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Quote Originally Posted by LaPorte View Post
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1937-Hol...QQcmdZViewItem

    Another Holton tenor well played, but in remarkably good condition in nice original case: A Revelation III engraved 'REVELATION' from 1937 SN# 120991. Fotos are worth to be saved I think as well as some other Holton ebay finds of the last time.

    Oh--I posted about this on the "Modern Vintage" thread too. I just noticed the "Revelation" engraved on it. What about the model number though? The seller says it's a 243, but the numbers are so small, I can't tell. Perhaps "213" instead? I tried enlarging th pic, but it just got fuzzy.

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    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Quote Originally Posted by geauxsax View Post
    Oh--I posted about this on the "Modern Vintage" thread too. I just noticed the "Revelation" engraved on it. What about the model number though? The seller says it's a 243, but the numbers are so small, I can't tell. Perhaps "213" instead? I tried enlarging th pic, but it just got fuzzy.
    geauxsax from 'Modern Vintage Holtons':

    "How about this tenor from ebay? I'm not questioing the auction at all--seems fine to me. I'm just curious about the model and how it fits with other models. It says it is a 243--and appears to back it up with a pic of the sn (model # above sn--maybe it says 213 instead though???). But the sn is significantly earlier than my 232 altos (would think their sn's would be contemporary with 242 tenors, right?) The horn (but not neck) looks like a 24X eries horn, but the engraving style and the neck are more akin to earlier models like Revelations. The LH pinky cluster doesn't look like the 243 pics I've seen either."

    On a sharp enlarging the number says "213".

    Holton's fundamental model structure is very simple:

    1. Professional Line (since 1917): REVELATION
    2. Student Line (since 1928): COLLEGIATE

    What about 'Wiedoeft model' or 'ResoTone'?
    Both are special editions deriving from the REVELATION (Ib or rather III)

    Of course REVELATION and COLLEGIATE were modernized through the years: Completely new (incl. different bore/new proportions): REVELATION II compared to REVELATION I and COLLEGIATE II compared to COLLEGIATE I; moderately different: REVELATION III compared to REVELATION II.

    We can say I, II and III are series (not serial-!) numbers as well as 201, 204(ResoTone) 213 (REVELATION III tenor).

    For better understanding and classification my suggestion is regarding the the REVELATION III as transitional series beginning ca. 1935. REVELATION III has a lot of modern features, but the traditional front engraving Holton used from 1917 (type) ca. 1921 (floral design).

    In short: We have the terms I, II, and III for the older vintage Holtons and the 'three digit series' for the 'modern vintage Holtons', which differenciate (in addition) between alto, tenor, bari (second digit!). Also REVELATION and COLLEGIATE got different three-digit-numbers as terms of series.

    Consequently the REVELATION III is a transitional saxophone which has both: 'classical' engraving including 'REVELATION' and a three digit series number.

    My impression is that the three digit system was not handled very strictly through the years (see also #171 of this thread, of which terminology has to be slightly updated now).

    Felix
    Couturier straight soprano > Claude Lakey 7* > Vandoren java / marca jazz 2.0
    Couturier alto > Jody Jazz esp 8 > m.a.r.c.a. jazz 2.0
    Couturier tenor> Jody Jazz esp 7* > m.a.r.c.a jazz 2.5


    "Why would I play on an ordinary, modern horn if it doesn't bring any special character to the music?" Al Mc Lean

  13. #273
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    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Quote Originally Posted by jazzbug1 View Post
    Concerning the Revelation tenor Mr. LaPorte mentions: Look closely-- Do I see a Rudy type sliding cork on the neck"? That's certainly a maximum size G# key. I wonder if the conical dimensions are the same as my Rudy tenor. My tenor has a remarkable upper register, which sounds clean and clear like a C melody, while it retains a full bottom end sound. I was so impressed, I sold my Conn 10M, which most players would think was crazy. But I am crazy, so it was expected!
    I agree, there is indeed a Rudy type sliding cork on the neck.

    Conical dimensions: This is personally one of the most interesting questions for me. I'm pretty shure that this REVELATION III has different bore (supposed to be bigger at the beginning of the tube) and different proportions compared to the 'Rudy Wiedoeft model' which is essentially a REVELATION I. There was a fundamental change from the REVELATION I to II (geauxsax' tenor!).
    Last edited by LaPorte; 12-10-2008 at 08:26 PM.
    Couturier straight soprano > Claude Lakey 7* > Vandoren java / marca jazz 2.0
    Couturier alto > Jody Jazz esp 8 > m.a.r.c.a. jazz 2.0
    Couturier tenor> Jody Jazz esp 7* > m.a.r.c.a jazz 2.5


    "Why would I play on an ordinary, modern horn if it doesn't bring any special character to the music?" Al Mc Lean

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    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting

    Probably no Holton. Martin? Anybody who knows?
    Couturier straight soprano > Claude Lakey 7* > Vandoren java / marca jazz 2.0
    Couturier alto > Jody Jazz esp 8 > m.a.r.c.a. jazz 2.0
    Couturier tenor> Jody Jazz esp 7* > m.a.r.c.a jazz 2.5


    "Why would I play on an ordinary, modern horn if it doesn't bring any special character to the music?" Al Mc Lean

  15. #275
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    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    I would say either a Martin or IBIco. horn. Really rough and I wouldn't bother trying to fix it.

  16. #276

    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Do you know what the model shown in post #257 is? I just bought it for my daughter.

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    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Quote Originally Posted by talen03 View Post
    Do you know what the model shown in post #257 is? I just bought it for my daughter.
    The model shown in #257 is a Revelation series Ib (see model list #80) made in early 1927.
    This saxophone is of great interest for dating / reconstruction of the SN time line.
    Are you the new owner?
    Couturier straight soprano > Claude Lakey 7* > Vandoren java / marca jazz 2.0
    Couturier alto > Jody Jazz esp 8 > m.a.r.c.a. jazz 2.0
    Couturier tenor> Jody Jazz esp 7* > m.a.r.c.a jazz 2.5


    "Why would I play on an ordinary, modern horn if it doesn't bring any special character to the music?" Al Mc Lean

  18. #278

    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Yes I am the new owner. We just received the sax today. Needs some pads but other than that is in really good shape for its age. Not really familiar with Holtons but my daughter really liked it! Why no cork on the neck? Has original mouthpiece. Along with the paperwork and all.
    Thanks for all the info here!

  19. #279
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    Default Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    The cork is on the sliding piece with the screw. The cork assemblly fits into the mouthpiece all the way and to tune, you slide the bit and tighten the screw. Don't lose the little bit as they are not available.

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    Content Expert/Distinguished SOTW Member LaPorte's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

    Quote Originally Posted by bruce bailey View Post
    I would say either a Martin or IBIco. horn. Really rough and I wouldn't bother trying to fix it.
    Thank you, Bruce Bailey. Just this moment the answer came up: IBIco=
    Indiana Band Instrument Company!
    Couturier straight soprano > Claude Lakey 7* > Vandoren java / marca jazz 2.0
    Couturier alto > Jody Jazz esp 8 > m.a.r.c.a. jazz 2.0
    Couturier tenor> Jody Jazz esp 7* > m.a.r.c.a jazz 2.5


    "Why would I play on an ordinary, modern horn if it doesn't bring any special character to the music?" Al Mc Lean

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