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Thread: Student Sax vs. Professional

  1. #21

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    The only rock solid distinguishing feature is the thing blowing into the mouthpiece.
    The only useful metric is the width of the grin.
    :-)

  2. #22
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    I guess in addition to the difficult visual cues, it is best to research a particular horn. and that is where the Search button comes into play. Of course, most just ask the same questions again.

    But, not to confuse the issue, if we look at just Yamaha - as they have an entire line, you may see visual cues between a 23, 475 and 875 horn.

    In short:
    23 with nickel keywork and not as nice keywork (thumb octave mechanism, no high F#, etc),

    you may see alot of similarities between the 475 and 875, the obvious visual difference is lack of engraving.

    But some of the non-visual things are items such as: the 875 custom neck is handmade versus hydroformed (at least it used to be from what i recall), a different content of copper & brass with the 875 having a higher copper content. 875 has a finished hand hammered bell.

    So .. in essense, more hand work was done on the 875 than the 475 - these are things that visually you are not going to be able to see.

    Of course, moving out of the Yamaha brand taiwan horns comes in all flavors of copper brass content for student/intermediate instruments.

    and of course everything bruce said .. basically, the Pro horns get more attention to detail, things that visually you are not going to pick up on.

    So today, a pro horn can be labeled by the brand and model ... Selmer Paris, Yanigasawa, Yamaha 875/82Z, etc and basically you know that the attention to detail is there along with the knowledge and experience that makes a horn a pro horn .. of course, let's not get into how well/bad the factory setup could be.

  3. #23
    SOTW Contributor 2011 jbtsax's Avatar
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    What is the difference between a professional sax and a student one?

    About two to three thousand dollars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbtsax
    What is the difference between a professional sax and a student one?

    About two to three thousand dollars.
    but sometimes you get certain ppl, "who shall remain nameless" (aka Vordemort) who try to sell horns for much more than their worth .....

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbtsax
    What is the difference between a professional sax and a student one?

    About two to three thousand dollars.
    Not necessarily. Looking at Yamaha, the price difference between the YAS-23 ("student" horn) and the YAS-62 Mk II ("pro" horn) is just a little over $500. Spending the extra $500 is well worth it IMO. Of course, the 62 is Yamaha's lowest priced pro horn; the 82Z and 875 are another $500 and $700 more expensive respectively. (Prices from WWBW.)
    "You can play a shoestring if you're sincere." - John Coltrane

    "If you can't play in time and in tune the rest doesn't matter." - Keith Ridenhour

  6. #26
    SOTW Contributor 2011 jbtsax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fballatore
    Not necessarily. Looking at Yamaha, the price difference between the YAS-23 ("student" horn) and the YAS-62 Mk II ("pro" horn) is just a little over $500. Spending the extra $500 is well worth it IMO. Of course, the 62 is Yamaha's lowest priced pro horn; the 82Z and 875 are another $500 and $700 more expensive respectively. (Prices from WWBW.)
    That is a bit misleading because the YAS 23 is being sold on WWBW at the Yamaha list price and the higher models have a much greater discount. I don't know of any retailer who sells the YAS 23 at the full list price. I know the store I work in does not. Perhaps Yamaha does not allow its dealers to advertise a lower price on the internet for its student models.

    John

  7. #27
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    it also begs the question .. what's the difference between an 'entry level' Pro horn and a regular pro horn .... ie Yamaha (62 - 875), Yanigasawa (901 - 991) etc

    and .. some Selmer Paris models don't/won't have a high F# key ......

    so it's easy to see the confusion from the poster ....

  8. #28

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    "Sticker price" is a good indication of whether the horn be for students. Student models saxes are priced lower so as to fit a "student budget." It is an academic discount, so to speak. As with most things, the age old adage of buyer beware is still true so it is wise to shop and compare. Ask questions at the music store until they are sick of you, and then ask more questions.

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    Distinguished SOTW Member/Forum Contributor 2009 Finnerski's Avatar
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    How about reading up on the different brands of sax? If you go to one of the big 4 websites, they would normally list for you their line of saxes. From the student line, all the way up to the pro horns. That and price are usually two good indicators of what you are looking at to buy.
    Finnerski

  10. #30
    Forum Contributor 2011 Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueTone
    Sure...why not ...then that way NOBODY will need to visit SOTW except to search for info....and we can stop posting entirely!
    a. I somewhat agree with the sentiment, however usening the SEARCH function is a good idea because many topics -- like this one -- may have been posted before. Why have 50 threads regarding the same subject? When I was adminning here, I'd merge threads that discussed the same topic, but there are way more threads on this site than even the half-dozen admins we have here can keep up with.

    b. I don't like it when someone says, "Use the search button!" and doesn't then post something like, "You'd find http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=63637 which is a wonderful thread that answers most of your questions. If you have something further to ask, please post there."

    (BTB, that is the thread that answers most of your questions. If you have something further to ask, please post there.)

    c. My humble website, TheSax.Info, is attempting to catalog the featuresets of modern horns. There really isn't much difference in "features" between student and pro horn. Build quality? Yes.
    Yes, I'm the Artist Formerly Known as Saxpics.

    Check out my new blog and gallery! Latest article: 09/24/12.

  11. #31
    Distinguished SOTW Member/Forum Contributor 2010 Canadiain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnerski
    How about reading up on the different brands of sax? If you go to one of the big 4 websites, they would normally list for you their line of saxes. From the student line, all the way up to the pro horns. That and price are usually two good indicators of what you are looking at to buy.
    Ignoring the plethora of vintage horns the problem is not so much with the big 4, whos lines and reputations are well defined, its the two divisions below that, the "other reputable asian brands"...Jupiter, Cannonball, Antigua etc, who make good horns with pro features that lack some of the quality perhaps of the top brands, and certainly lack the history and cache associated with the top brands. These can be great value tried and tested horns for students and intermediates and even gigging pros when you dont want to risk an expensive horn. Some of the top of the range taiwanese brand horns will give the big 4 a run for their money, and the bottom of the range taiwanese student line horns will do the job, but for the uninitiate how do you tell one model from another? Some of the Cannonballs and Mauriats are serious money now.

    Below that you have all the no name recent chinese and other horns that can be quite good, or can be quite bad and sell at a very low price point.

    If I have a student looking for a horn to get started, I dont want to spend many hundreds on a Yamaha Student horn, so really for the uninformed, shopping away from the expensive name brands is a bit of a minefield as they may have heard of Selmer or Yamaha, (and of course your friendly LMS may well be more keen to sell a more expensive brands horn, even if in the case of the non paris selmers it was made in the same factory as a chaeper taiwanese branded, or even a chinese horn as they make more profit on it.), but the average parent wont know a Jupiter from a Jollysun.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevesklar
    and .. some Selmer Paris models don't/won't have a high F# key ...... .
    None of the great vintage horns have this excess baggage either!

    One thing we should lay to rest: A high F# key has nothing whatsoever to do with making any horn a "pro horn." It probably does increase the price of manufacture which would explain why it's left off some of the "student" models. I think probably the biggest difference is overall build quality and price of manufacture.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by JL
    None of the great vintage horns have this excess baggage either!

    One thing we should lay to rest: A high F# key has nothing whatsoever to do with making any horn a "pro horn." It probably does increase the price of manufacture which would explain why it's left off some of the "student" models. I think probably the biggest difference is overall build quality and price of manufacture.
    Doesnt it cost more to get a modern selmer without the high F#?

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadiain
    Doesnt it cost more to get a modern selmer without the high F#?
    yes, but only because it's an optional option that you can opt for .. which, thus costs more money because they have to *exclude* it from manufacturing

    kinda like some brand(s) where a naked horn costs more than a plated/lacquered one .. go figure.

  15. #35
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    You're looking at a horn and you want to know whether it is a pro or student horn.

    Write down everything engraved on the horn.

    Convey that information to the wise heads here, and they will tell you which it is.

    Some, however, will not address your question and will tell you to use the Search function. Ignore them.

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