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Global Ban on Fools who play two horns at the same time!!

74K views 168 replies 111 participants last post by  1saxman 
#1 ·
PEOPLE WHO PLAY ANY 2 SAXOPHONES AT THE SAME TIME WILL NOW BE HIT WITH FELONY CHARGES ON, DISTURBING OF THE PEACE, UNINTELLIGENTLY USING CREATIVITY TO CAUSE CHAOS AMONG PEOPLE.......and they are just plain old stupid..... that should be banned, it sounds horrible...... and it isnt anything important..
 
#4 ·
If you think someone like Roland Kirk, who played two and sometimes three horns at once, sounds terrible then maybe you should get your ears checked ! He is one of the most underated sax players ever in my opinion, and definetely ....IMPORTANT. As for others who play two horns at once, well that's another story :wink:
 
#7 ·
I've got Jeff Coffin's e-mail address if you'd like it. I'm sure he's like to hear it straight from you. :wink:
 
#8 ·
no thats alright, i just have strong opinions about that, because at my region jazz band concert last year, the 2nd tenor guy did a thing where he played two at once, and i didnt like it. So i dont know, maybe there is someone who can make an art out of it, and that would be awesome. But all i have heard is that one guy, and it wasnt awesome.
 
#9 ·
tenorman said:
But all i have heard is that one guy, and it wasnt awesome.
:lol:
 
#11 ·
Re: Global Ban on Fools who play two horns at the same time!

tenorman said:
UNINTELLIGENTLY USING CREATIVITY TO CAUSE CHAOS AMONG PEOPLE.......and they are just plain old stupid..... that should be banned, it sounds horrible...... and it isnt anything important.
<sigh>. Listening to ill-judged tirades from people who berate what they don't understand or don't personally like (especially based upon listening to just one example - and an amateur example at that) gets a little tired. forgive me if I sound a little brusque, but as for whether this sort of playing can be important, well in the annals of jazz saxophone history Roland Kirk is important. Can you say the same about yourself ?

<rant off>
 
#13 ·
I was amazed by a sax player at a local club who pulled this off with incredible skill. It sounded good with the two horns playing at the same time and I still can't figure how he managed to do the fingering. I remember thinking it could have been on a Believe It Or Not segment.
8)
 
#14 ·
I have been playing dual horns regularly for 40 years. I understand completely anyone's feeling that this is not a legitimate undertaking and that any practicioners are probably stupid. However, to say it sounds horrible without actually hearing somebody that knows how to do it is a bit of an insult. I take a few simple solos on them, but mainly I do 'horn parts' on pop tunes when I am the only horn on the job. Also on that job I will play mainly tenor with a lot of bari, some soprano and alto. My 'duals' consists of tenor and alto. I don't do it as a trick or to get attention. It's just my way to get a two-sax sound, and since it's very hard to do, for the satisfaction of getting them to play in tune and blow with the same resistance. The little 'head arrangements' I come up with on songs that never had horns are very satisfying. I have tapes and CD's of it that you would swear was two players, but it's just me. I was actually a lot better at it in the past when I did it on every job. Now, I play in a 'horn band' and there's no need for it, although the guys want me to work up a number featuring it. There have been and still are a number of guys doing duals on all levels of commercial/jazz playing. The mistake most 'newbies' make with this is trying to do something flashy with it in a solo setting - usually sounds bad and elicits comments like the one that started the thread. Ideally, you would walk into a club and hear a band with some really close harmony from the two saxes, then discover that it's one player - not taking a solo, just playing the right parts behind the number. Listen to Roland Kirk - dig the unique sounds and harmonies - he took the whole concept to the nth degree as far as jazz is concerned. I don't play that way at all. Anyone trying this would benefit highly from tips from those of us who know how. Right off the bat, you have to match up your mouthpieces/reeds for equal resistance, and the mouthpieces have to be small, like Guardalas, etc. You have to do this without messing up your set-up on either horn. In other words, you would never set up two horns just for dualing unless that's all you planned to use them for. Then, you have to learn to think in both keys while playing the alto on the right side with your right hand working the upper stack. Using two straps, you can then either tuck the alto upside down under your right arm while you solo on tenor or just let the tenor hang while you play the alto. Really, the mindset I have is that I'm playing a different instrument, not playing two saxes. You either learn to play them as one instrument giving two notes, or you fail at it. Usually the lines for each sax are parallel, but not all the time - there's some room for independent lines, little suspensions and so forth, like any horn section. At one time I was going to rig up a pitch harmonizer and midi connection for each horn using a Kurzweil horn module. Then, the alto could be a bari, too, or either one could come through the module as any kind of horn, with more harmonies added by the IPS-33 pitch harmonizer, with the harmonies being corrected in real time by the midi connection to the keyboard. Nothing new there, just adapted to the dual horns. See the band touring as 'The Average White Band' with their excellent sax player and only horn covering all the great horn parts on one horn with electronic augmentation, including 'Pick Up The Pieces'. Anyway, I came to my senses and got rid of all electronic equipment. I just use a reflector now, not even a stage monitor. I realized that all I needed was to be able to hear exactly what I sounded like with no electronic modification. The electronic stuff was making me lazy and I began to lose the center of what I was trying to do. Still, as a project it would be interesting to try that, but just not practical for gigging with the 'duals' although it's done with one horn all the time.
 
#17 ·
On a different tangent, we've got a guy in our group who not only fills in on bass or banjo, but can play piano with his left hand and trumpet with his right at the same time. This includes comping on piano while playing lead on trumpet or while improvising. It is really an amazing thing to witness and it goes without saying that he's a great hire for a small combo job. He's also getting quite good at bass and trumpet at the same time, although that's a bit more limited.
 
#18 ·
Several years ago I had the pleasure to hear and see Roland Kirk play in person. He was led on stage with three saxes and flute in the bell of his tenor (plus nose flute-which was invisible). I was probably 20 years old at the time. I'll never forget that experience. He plays a mean teonr too!
 
#19 ·
Colibri; You're limited to the upper stack on each horn plus the palm keys of the horn on the left. This actually provides the ability to play two notes of any chord, and by substitution, lines of greater range can be covered. Tenor and alto is the norm so you can at least finger the same note on each and get a fifth. Unison is actually the hardest because of intonation. If I can get a concert 'C' in tune in both octaves, I'm ready to go (D2 & 3, palm, on tenor and A1 & 2 on alto). If Jody played two altos, he really tackled a tough problem. I haven't tried it, never having owned two altos at one time, but obviously it can be done. How about the guy in the band 'Morphine' that plays bari and tenor together? Now that's a man, folks.
 
#91 ·
Couldn't you also pick two of the same size instrument (say, two altos), clamp the left hand stack shut on one of them, and play left hand notes on one and right hand notes on the other? If you used a vintage horn with the trill G# for the right hand you could even block the G# key open and add a note to your range on that side. Block the low C# open too while you're at it. The only hard hack I think you'd need would be to extend the octave key touch to the right thumb.

This seems like it would be easier on the mouth (two mouthpieces of the same size) and on the head (normal right hand fingerings), and put the right hand closer to its natural position on the "left" horn when it's time to play the more complex single lines.

If I had never seen it done before, I think this would be how I'd make a first go at it. Grab two altos, slap identical setups on them, string/rubber band the left hand shut on one of them.
 
#21 ·
Heh, I did something like that at region jazz band auditions with a tenor and an alto, but it was only one note, and pretty in tune but the tone quality sucked :)

Anyway, I'd also be happy to relay the message to Jeff Coffin. Wow, he's very good at this. Granted he does it in almost the same way at every Bela Fleck concert, with little change in the notes used, but still! :D
 
#22 ·
Re: Global Ban on Fools who play two horns at the same time!

tenorman said:
PEOPLE WHO PLAY ANY 2 SAXOPHONES AT THE SAME TIME WILL NOW BE HIT WITH FELONY CHARGES ON, DISTURBING OF THE PEACE, UNINTELLIGENTLY USING CREATIVITY TO CAUSE CHAOS AMONG PEOPLE.......and they are just plain old stupid..... that should be banned, it sounds horrible...... and it isnt anything important..
Durn right! I concur(means I agree :wink:), wholeheartedly. Theys gotta be brought unner control; oughta be registered offenders, maybe confined to house arrest, and at most confined to carnival side shows. Maybe if they got a special license, paid a fee for noise pollution, they could be tolerated; you know like, the poor things do deserve to live. Bless their hearts. :lol:
 
#23 ·
You are all probably too young to remember him, but Vic Hyde played two, three and FOUR trumpets simultaneously in his act. I played shows behind him at several venues in NW PA during the early 60s. I have looked on the web for info but find little regarding him. He had a curved plate made through which each mouthpiece extended, thereby stabilizing his "embouchure" - really amazing to hear 4 part brass lines from one player even if he only had to use three buttons per side at most.

I also wonder what the psychological pundits might have to say regarding these types of "oral fixations".
 
#25 ·
colibri said:
How do you finger low notes on both horns at the same time?
There is a guy here in Albuquerque who's got polio in his left hand and what he did was tape down the the upper stack keys. To get those note he just plays the harmonics and no octave key for the higher notes. He use the opposite of his elbow or upper left arm to play the palm keys. He just doesn't make sounds he can play just like a regular pro and you wouldnt know the difference. He also has a good solid tone out of his alto - which I think is a result of playing w/o the octave key. He also uses a TrueTone Buescher. So if this guy can do it - maybe you can tape your down the uper stack on the other horn as well
 
#26 ·
example

if anyone caught the performance on PBS a few weeks ago of Bela Fleck & The Flecktones, you may have gotten the chance to see Jeff Coffin bring the house down playing alto and tenor together.

Outstanding work, well worth seeing if you get the chance IMHO.

In an interview, someone asked Jeff:

WHAT IS THE STORY BEHIND PLAYING TWO SAXES AT THE SAME TIME ?

He responded: Rahsaan Roland Kirk. It is my nod to him, a tribute of sorts, of the open page that music presents to each and every one of us at all times. If you try things and experiment with your instrument you will find many ways of doing things that seem far fetched to some.
Roland Kirk played three saxes at a time and would circular breathe while doing it! Now that's some imagination! fusion music.
 
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