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  1. #21
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    Try another Series 3 sop. Mine plays fine with my old C* as does my V1 and King Saxello. It sounds like a set up problem to me but you never know.Maybe just having a couple of pads replaced will fix it. I have my C* pushed way on on the Series 3. Much further than the V1 or King.

  2. #22

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    That's interesting about the "squeeze throat" chambers. I never would have thought of that, but it makes sense. I'll experiment with that whenever I get the horn back/replaced if I still have the problem. Do classical mouthpieces usually have the squeeze throat? I certainly don't want to go any brighter than the S80 C*, so what models that are similar or darker have a squeeze chamber, Selmer or otherwise (for legit, by the way)? Thanks for all the help, guys. Much appreciated.

    --JT

  3. #23
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    The new Vandorens seem to be popular with classical soprano players. I like Selmer mouthpieces on Selmer sopranos. Here many classical players favour the Mark V1 over the Series 3 . I think the 3 is easily the best modern sop but I wish it was lighter..I haven't tried the Rampone's though.

  4. #24

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    I was playing on a Morgan protone and my intonation was decent but no where near perfect. I now play a selmer super session H and I hit the green dot on my tuner instantly. This was all on my yss-475
    [SIZE="0.5"]Tenor- King Super 20-FL Spectruso .110SP
    Alto- Yamaha YAS-875EX-Morgan Jazz 7 RJS 3M
    soprano- Yamaha YSS-475-Jody Jazz DV 6* RJS 3M

  5. #25

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    To update this again:

    Soprano was sent to WWBW, who then sent it to Selmer. When I got it back from Selmer (same horn), the problem was still there. After inspecting, I could not find any visible evidence of work having been done, other than several scratches that WEREN'T there before. I then called to see what the deal was and was told that it had been fixed and I would be getting a call from someone to explain exactly what was done. This Monday I got that call. Apparently this is an issue that pops up on Series III sopranos from time to time. It is caused by an unknown combination of factors during manufacture such as drawing of the tone holes, seating of pads, leveling of pads, etc. (or so I was told). The situation is being taken care of in a manner of which I approve, though I don't want to explain quite yet. I'll let you guys know. By the way, this isn't a problem unique to Series III or even Selmer, but happens to sopranos on occasion. After trying several sopranos recently with my trusty C*, I found a Mark VI with the same problem. Thanks again for all the suggestions.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Problem with Selmer Series III Soprano

    Did Selmer ever manage to repair your reed-pipe?
    What was involved? Or did they just make an exchange?

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Problem with Selmer Series III Soprano

    I'm having a similar problem.

    I'm borrowing a Series III (for evaluation) and the overtones do not line up properly at all. 4th overtone on low Bb (D) is in between D and Eb - meaning that its a quarter tone sharp (in relation to the rest of the horn). This horn plays so flat even with the mouthpiece pushed on all the way, one thing to note - its SN is 509,xxx - one of the early ones. I've never seen this problem with the later instruments, but this is seriously unplayable. Too bad its past the Selmer warranty to be dealt with properly.

    I feel bad for the poor sap who ends up buying this thing.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Problem with Selmer Series III Soprano

    Lotta cats I know pull the neck on these guys out a little (maybe 1.5mm or less) to help with that. I'm surprised this didn't come up more than once in this thread. Not sure matching overtones matters - does it play in tune?

    Never had a problem with mine, both necks, all the way in, 559xxx.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Problem with Selmer Series III Soprano

    The mouthpiece off the horn with the proper embouchure pressure should sound a concert Db or high Eb soprano pitch. If it sounds lower than concert Db than you are not using enough lip pressure and you will be flat. This test always works.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Problem with Selmer Series III Soprano

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewfrankhouse View Post
    Lotta cats I know pull the neck on these guys out a little (maybe 1.5mm or less) to help with that. I'm surprised this didn't come up more than once in this thread. Not sure matching overtones matters - does it play in tune?

    Never had a problem with mine, both necks, all the way in, 559xxx.
    Pulling the neck out will just make it flatter, and overtones to have a serious amount of importance to know if the horn has been made properly. Even all the overtones line up properly on other saxophones with no problems, just new to this Series III. Also, I stated above - the horn does NOT play in tune, its really really flat.

    Quote Originally Posted by martinm5862 View Post
    The mouthpiece off the horn with the proper embouchure pressure should sound a concert Db or high Eb soprano pitch. If it sounds lower than concert Db than you are not using enough lip pressure and you will be flat. This test always works.
    Ummmmmm... Lip pressure, is definitely a bad thing to be promoting and teaching as it closes the reed off - thus reducing your tip size. I'm not saying that NO pressure should be there, but very very little. I'd like to add that this has NEVER been a problem on my previous Mark VI or Yamaha 475, nor has it ever been a concern on any of the other horns that I play (alto/tenor/bari/flute/clarinet)... I play professionally, and have a horn to my face for at least 2-3 hours a day. I have lots of experience playing the saxophone, and soprano especially. This is a problem new to me on the Series III.

    My reason for posting this, is mainly to see if there are any known problems with Series III sopranos from other professional players that have played them.

    I am using an old Otto Link "Slant" 7* hard rubber mouthpiece.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Problem with Selmer Series III Soprano

    Quote Originally Posted by unbalancedaction View Post
    I'm having a similar problem.

    I'm borrowing a Series III (for evaluation) and the overtones do not line up properly at all. 4th overtone on low Bb (D) is in between D and Eb - meaning that its a quarter tone sharp (in relation to the rest of the horn). This horn plays so flat even with the mouthpiece pushed on all the way, one thing to note - its SN is 509,xxx - one of the early ones. I've never seen this problem with the later instruments, but this is seriously unplayable. Too bad its past the Selmer warranty to be dealt with properly.

    I feel bad for the poor sap who ends up buying this thing.
    It's known that the first soprano SIII had issues ( don't remember which). Try a more recent one and buy it!
    Buffet-Crampon S1 tenor sax
    Yanagisawa S990 soprano sax
    Yamaha YAS32 alto sax

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Problem with Selmer Series III Soprano

    have you tried a supersession mpc on it?
    runyon mouthpeices-no need to look elsewhere

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Problem with Selmer Series III Soprano

    Quote Originally Posted by silvin View Post
    It's known that the first soprano SIII had issues ( don't remember which). Try a more recent one and buy it!
    Thanks for the bit of info, thats what I was looking for (rather than a lesson). I've now got a newer one (629,xxx) and its better, but still flat across the board. I've found the problem and will explain below.

    Quote Originally Posted by super20dan View Post
    have you tried a supersession mpc on it?
    No, but I played a Yamaha 4c that was in the case, and a S80 D that was in the case of the first horn - both with no problems... Thing is, I want to use my Link as its got a considerably darker sound and I've been playing it for years.

    NOW (the rub), I have another med/large chamber piece that was opened up by a good friend of mine and it is less flat than the Slant, but I noticed that it goes on the cork a little bit more than the Slant. When I had my VI (and 475), I could seriously put the mpc on the cork so far that the tenon area could even come in passed the window - the Series 3 necks get stuck about an 8th - half an inch before the window begins... I've had idiots tell me to chop the neck, but I'm just going to send my mouthpieces out to somebody to have them expand the neck tenon area (NOT TOUCH THE FACING OR CHAMBER) so that the pieces will go on the neck to the proper amount, and thus play in tune instead of being FLAT. I'm sure this will cause controversy because people like something to b1tch about, but seriously, I think this is going to work with no problems. Its better than chopping the neck, and if the neck taper on the mouthpiece is too big (and too loose on the neck), I can always replace the cork on the necks (which is what neck cork is for).

  14. #34
    Distinguished SOTW Member/Logician Grumps's Avatar
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    Default Re: Problem with Selmer Series III Soprano

    Quote Originally Posted by unbalancedaction View Post
    Thing is, I want to use my Link as its got a considerably darker sound and I've been playing it for years.
    Not all favored mouthpieces are going to shine on another horn. In this case especially, if you consider some of the older opinions expressed within this thread. I'm not a fan of the III's, but the smaller chambered, squeeze throat Selmer mouthpieces (like the Metal Classic or the Super Session) would probably improve your situation.

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Problem with Selmer Series III Soprano

    I have one of the early ones; the engraving actually says Super Action Serie III, not Serie III. Like unbalancedaction I also found the intonation rather flat, so I asked my repairman to make the curved neck about 5mm shorter. This has worked out very well, tuning is fine.

    I've had various soprano mouthpieces, the ones that work well with this horn for me all have a somewhat small round chamber. The ones I like best are vintage Soloists, but a Super Session, Bari or Vandoren V5 could also be okay.

  16. #36

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    Default Re: Problem with Selmer Series III Soprano

    Quote Originally Posted by Grumps View Post
    Not all favored mouthpieces are going to shine on another horn.
    That's for sure!!! I have a SuperSession that would not work at all on a iii I just bought. I tried an HR Yani mpc, but it was too stuffy. Same with a Soloist for me. The mpc I like best is the s80 that came with the horn. Great volume, low tones, intonation, and can play soft easily too. It sits on the cork with the bottom of the shank right at the edge of the cork. The s80 is an E, and I have a G on order to see how that goes.

    I was originally hoping the SS would work, but no way. The horn always trumps the player in mpc selection, just go with the flow. Doing that I am finding the iii to be the best sop I've ever played, and I've played a lot of different ones.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Problem with Selmer Series III Soprano

    Quote Originally Posted by unbalancedaction View Post
    I've found the problem and will explain below.



    No, but I played a Yamaha 4c that was in the case, and a S80 D that was in the case of the first horn - both with no problems... Thing is, I want to use my Link as its got a considerably darker sound and I've been playing it for years.

    NOW (the rub), I have another med/large chamber piece that was opened up by a good friend of mine and it is less flat than the Slant, but I noticed that it goes on the cork a little bit more than the Slant. When I had my VI (and 475), I could seriously put the mpc on the cork so far that the tenon area could even come in passed the window - the Series 3 necks get stuck about an 8th - half an inch before the window begins... I've had idiots tell me to chop the neck, but I'm just going to send my mouthpieces out to somebody to have them expand the neck tenon area (NOT TOUCH THE FACING OR CHAMBER) so that the pieces will go on the neck to the proper amount, and thus play in tune instead of being FLAT. I'm sure this will cause controversy because people like something to b1tch about, but seriously, I think this is going to work with no problems. Its better than chopping the neck, and if the neck taper on the mouthpiece is too big (and too loose on the neck), I can always replace the cork on the necks (which is what neck cork is for).
    I have had similar problems with some soprano necks and at least one alto (a Yani), but particularly the Selmer sops. In some cases, for whatever reason, the lip or rim of the neck is a larger diameter than it should be (the "rim" that the cork butts up to). In fact, it is substantially larger in diameter than the outside of the neck tube. The easy solution, which has no detrimental effects on the horn is to just bevel the brass lip down a bit so that all your mouthpieces can slide on as far as they need to. No need to take it to a machine shop, this can be done with sandpaper or a very fine file. I suppose you could actually grind it down to the same diameter as the outside of the neck tube, but wouldn't do that unless absolutely necessary as the rim probably helps to strengthen the end of the neck. However, I would do that before I shortened the neck!!!!

    I checked out a nice used III recently in Sydney. I had brought along only one mouthpiece and couldn't even get close to in tune. Didn't buy the horn because I couldn't try it out.....
    David Boyles
    Currently playing Yamaha YSS-62R, Conn F Mezzo, Martin Skyline Handcraft Alto, Lyon & Healy C Melody, Buescher "Big B" tenor, Yani B901 Baritone

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Problem with Selmer Series III Soprano

    Quote Originally Posted by eightstar View Post
    I have one of the early ones; the engraving actually says Super Action Serie III, not Serie III. Like unbalancedaction I also found the intonation rather flat, so I asked my repairman to make the curved neck about 5mm shorter. This has worked out very well, tuning is fine.

    I've had various soprano mouthpieces, the ones that work well with this horn for me all have a somewhat small round chamber. The ones I like best are vintage Soloists, but a Super Session, Bari or Vandoren V5 could also be okay.
    Yeah, so it turned out that the mouthpiece I was using had too small of a neck diameter, as well as I just had to shed my overtones (and still do). Got another old Link and it fits fine and plays fine... Good thing I didn't cut the neck like some people recommended. The Super Sessions, S15/25/35 are all really great recreations of the Soloist... If you got them all refaced by the same guy, I'm sure they'd all play the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pigpen View Post
    That's for sure!!! I have a SuperSession that would not work at all on a iii I just bought. I tried an HR Yani mpc, but it was too stuffy. Same with a Soloist for me. The mpc I like best is the s80 that came with the horn. Great volume, low tones, intonation, and can play soft easily too. It sits on the cork with the bottom of the shank right at the edge of the cork. The s80 is an E, and I have a G on order to see how that goes.

    I was originally hoping the SS would work, but no way. The horn always trumps the player in mpc selection, just go with the flow. Doing that I am finding the iii to be the best sop I've ever played, and I've played a lot of different ones.
    Again, works fine for me now... Practice trumps mouthpiece selection, in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeyondSax View Post
    I have had similar problems with some soprano necks and at least one alto (a Yani), but particularly the Selmer sops. In some cases, for whatever reason, the lip or rim of the neck is a larger diameter than it should be (the "rim" that the cork butts up to). In fact, it is substantially larger in diameter than the outside of the neck tube. The easy solution, which has no detrimental effects on the horn is to just bevel the brass lip down a bit so that all your mouthpieces can slide on as far as they need to. No need to take it to a machine shop, this can be done with sandpaper or a very fine file. I suppose you could actually grind it down to the same diameter as the outside of the neck tube, but wouldn't do that unless absolutely necessary as the rim probably helps to strengthen the end of the neck. However, I would do that before I shortened the neck!!!!

    I checked out a nice used III recently in Sydney. I had brought along only one mouthpiece and couldn't even get close to in tune. Didn't buy the horn because I couldn't try it out.....
    I see your logic, and I'm sure it works... But I'd rather modify the mouthpiece to fit the horn than the opposite... Would you grind the wheel arches on your car to fit bigger rims, or buy smaller tires/rims?

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Problem with Selmer Series III Soprano

    Quote Originally Posted by unbalancedaction View Post
    I see your logic, and I'm sure it works... But I'd rather modify the mouthpiece to fit the horn than the opposite... Would you grind the wheel arches on your car to fit bigger rims, or buy smaller tires/rims?
    Well this is a bit different, and I reckon the analogy proposed doesn't fit. This issue seems to be a manufacturing defect or quality control oversight, as lots of folks have reported the problem. And, at least one option quoted on the forum has been to chop off the last few millimeters of the neck - effectively removing the rim completely and also unfortunately shortening the neck. Grinding down the outside diameter of the lip/rim (I don't know what else to call it) of the neck end will affect nothing in terms of the horn's performance (shortening the neck may well do so). In fact, many horn manufacturers do not even put the lip/rim on necks - or if they do it is very slight. On necks without this rim, it is cork that meets the mouthpiece bore, not metal. On some IIIs, where the outside diameter of the metal rim is too big, the metal stops the mouthpiece from sliding on further. So milling it down a bit seems quite practical to me.

    So to answer your question, my option is a non-destructive and permanent fix that allows any reasonable piece to be used on the horn. BTW, I would note that some of my vintage pieces wouldn't fit any modern horn and I have in fact made a jig and bored them out just enought to fit a modern soprano. An example is a Woodwind Co. B4 that I love to use.

    Cheers, David
    David Boyles
    Currently playing Yamaha YSS-62R, Conn F Mezzo, Martin Skyline Handcraft Alto, Lyon & Healy C Melody, Buescher "Big B" tenor, Yani B901 Baritone

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Problem with Selmer Series III Soprano

    I'm stepping away from the conversation, if you guys wanna chop your horns go nuts.

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