I'm tired of mouthpiece makers lying to players telling them that they can get a potential customer to sound like someone, that's a bunch of BS. I'm laying out what I learned from Joe Allard, Herk Faranda, and Vick Morosco here and I’ll elaborate if some of you guys practice them and report back to me. My feeling is that the books and exercises available for sale are unnecessarily complicated. So, here's some stuff just to get started.
Play middle F without the octave key and using your throat, "slide" it down to low F. There’s no rhythm so hold the note for as long as you have to until it sounds low F but do it with the air stream and while opening your throat and supporting your diaphragm. It should be CLEAN and don't use your embouchure. If there's a gurgle or some distortion in between then keep trying until it's CLEAN. Use your diaphragm and open your throat more as you go to the low F and keep the diaphragm SUPPORTED. Do this exercise chromatically down to low Bb. It gets harder as you go down but the benefits will come by just practicing it. You should probably do it on F and E before you venture further down the register but trying to do it on D or Eb won't hurt because it's harder and may give you insight as to how to do it but if you're not successful then stop and take a break because you don't want to reinforce bad habits.
Also, practice scales on your mouthpiece when you can't have your horn with you. Remember, use your throat. The embouchure should be as loose and relaxed as possible.
Joe Allard used to tell me that the only pressure should be from the bottom of the mouthpiece using your teeth. Just enough to FEEL the reed through the bottom lip with your teeth using the muscles in your JAW, not your facial muscles and this "posture' should remain FIXED. The jaw muscles are much stronger than the facial muscles thus easier to control. This doesn't necessarily mean that you won't use your facial muscles at all but it’s just meant to lead you in the right direction.
Also, from now on, don't think of the extreme upper register as being hard to get, think of it as being easy, it’s in fact so easy that one thinks that you have to “try” in order to get them to play. The change in your embouchure stature should be SUBTLE, understand? I can get a variety of notes out using just one fingering but I don't change my embouchure, I alter my throat cavity and I hear the note a moment before I play it. Also, this is VERY important, take as much mouthpiece as possible. This may feel uncomfortable at first and the sound will be unrefined but in a few days it will feel natural and you will find the place where the mouthpiece will give you the optimum results.
I've watched many great players and the great majority of them take huge amounts of mouthpiece. Do this stuff for a few weeks then get back to me and I'll give you an exercise that along with these will enable you to play any mouthpiece and essentially sound the same. YOU will be the maker of the sound and not the mouthpiece or horn. By the way, do this as much as possible but if you don't have a lot of time just do them for a few minutes when you start your practice session and a few minutes at the end. If you're having a long practice session the try and do it in the middle too.
Good; I was a little worried . By the way, I have been doing the exercise for the last several weeks and have fairly little trouble slurring up and down from the octaves on F and below. I have noticed a dramatic improvement in my control of the basic overtone series as well, even though I still can't achieve the fourth overtone (2 octaves above the base note) on low C# or D. I eagerly anticipate your next exercise.
P.S. Thank you for all of your tone quality contributions.
Good; I was a little worried . By the way, I have been doing the exercise for the last several weeks and have fairly little trouble slurring up and down from the octaves on F and below. I have noticed a dramatic improvement in my control of the basic overtone series as well, even though I still can't achieve the fourth overtone (2 octaves above the base note) on low C# or D. I eagerly anticipate your next exercise.
P.S. Thank you for all of your tone quality contributions.
Okay, the next one is a little complicated in terms of trying to convey it to ya all on here so I'll start writing it in Word and hopefully I'll have it in about a week. Phil
It shouldn't sound sharp. We're talking pitch, right? As you take more mouthpiece in and hopefully loosen up the pitch should get flatter and this should enable you to push the mouthpiece in more. The sax sounds better the more you push the mouthpiece in. No on the long tones. Phil
Read this thread, and I have been gravitating to many of these ideas (more mpc, relaxed, Joe Allard, etc..) for a couple years now: I'm finding that I am using the chamber of the mpc more (and my throat), and relying less on the tip, as most of you have come to as well...
Questions is: How do you know when you have hit on the right tip opening? (Control vs. flexibilty---For example, I can use a 7* and a lot of piece=works, then in some situations feel the 8 is more flexible...but more work)
Read this thread, and I have been gravitating to many of these ideas (more mpc, relaxed, Joe Allard, etc..) for a couple years now: I'm finding that I am using the chamber of the mpc more (and my throat), and relying less on the tip, as most of you have come to as well...
Questions is: How do you know when you have hit on the right tip opening? (Control vs. flexibilty---For example, I can use a 7* and a lot of piece=works, then in some situations feel the 8 is more flexible...but more work)
Hit? What do you mean by hit? A 7* or 8 should be fine and take as much mouthpiece as possible. You shouldn't be on the tip at all but it sounds like you're heading in the right direction. Phil
A 7* will feel great in the mid and upper register (using a harder reed), the 8 (using a slightly softer reed) feels like I can subtone the low notes easier and they come out warmer, but intonation is a bit of more work. Altissimo is fine with either.
If one is using more mpc, do you find that less tip opening is needed?
I hope I'm describing this right: When playing the 7* I get this feeling that the piece is doing the work, my chops feel like they are just along for the ride. The larger tip requires more bending of the reed, but seems to allow for more color changes depnding on how I play it.
A 7* will feel great in the mid and upper register (using a harder reed), the 8 (using a slightly softer reed) feels like I can subtone the low notes easier and they come out warmer, but intonation is a bit of more work. Altissimo is fine with either.
If one is using more mpc, do you find that less tip opening is needed?
I hope I'm describing this right: When playing the 7* I get this feeling that the piece is doing the work, my chops feel like they are just along for the ride. The larger tip requires more bending of the reed, but seems to allow for more color changes depnding on how I play it.
You're worrying too much. The difference between the 7* and 8 is .005 of an inch, insignificant. Any thing you feel is probably not a result of the five thousandths, it's more likely to be the differences in the baffle and chamber. Just keep doing the exercises, you'll be fine. Phil
But thank you for helping me with my temporary neurosis.
Wish I could do something for you, so as to not have a selfish one-sided discussion.
How about this: I had grilled lamb with mint sauce last night. There was still a foot of snow on the ground, but I couldn't wait any longer and had to break out the grill. If you are ever near Minneapolis let me know-I'll have you over, and I promise to never bring up mouthpieces even once.
Okay, I switched to the Link 7*. I push i more mouthpiece. The pitch goes down as a I push more in until a certain point, after which the pitch starts to go up.
Oh, and last night my wife and I spent the evening making Moussaka, with some really nice eggplant and ground lamb. We had it with a nice Zinfandel, with pears and gorgonzola for dessert. It was larrupin' good. (so ono kine stuf it broke da mouf)
On the RPC (I use a baffled .120 on tenor), when I take in more mpc, the tone definitely gets better (fuller) and it does not go sharp. Only problem is I reach a point where it feels like I'm choking, so that's too much as far as I'm concerned. I also find the altissimo a bit more difficult with too much mpc, so there's a fine line.
Maybe there is a point where my tongue needs to back up to stay away from the piece. This would probably make the pitch start to go up. Just speculation
But thank you for helping me with my temporary neurosis.
Wish I could do something for you, so as to not have a selfish one-sided discussion.
How about this: I had grilled lamb with mint sauce last night. There was still a foot of snow on the ground, but I couldn't wait any longer and had to break out the grill. If you are ever near Minneapolis let me know-I'll have you over, and I promise to never bring up mouthpieces even once.
Comeon over for dinner Phil. How do you feel about Chicken breasts stuffed with goat cheese and basil with topped with a wine mushroom sauce? On the side I will make fresh asparagus topped with butter and garlic.
Comeon over for dinner Phil. How do you feel about Chicken breasts stuffed with goat cheese and basil with topped with a wine mushroom sauce? On the side I will make fresh asparagus topped with butter and garlic.
Comeon over for dinner Phil. How do you feel about Chicken breasts stuffed with goat cheese and basil with topped with a wine mushroom sauce? On the side I will make fresh asparagus topped with butter and garlic.
Thanks for not charging us the fee for the next lesson...although it looks like your getting some fine invitations to dinner....
I have been trying to keep up with these exercises...and I'm seeing some good results.
As far as taking in more mouthpiece....I have been experimenting and pushing it in past the bite-plate....and I notice it's much harder to control the bending of notes...I mean there's a point where I cant bend at all...
Does that mean it's too far in.....or will the control come with practice?
Thanks for not charging us the fee for the next lesson...although it looks like your getting some fine invitations to dinner....
I have been trying to keep up with these exercises...and I'm seeing some good results.
As far as taking in more mouthpiece....I have been experimenting and pushing it in past the bite-plate....and I notice it's much harder to control the bending of notes...I mean there's a point where I cant bend at all...
Does that mean it's too far in.....or will the control come with practice?
Bending is kind of dated but just move further back when you want to bend. You will have less control at first but it will come around. Just don't give into temptation to taking less mouthpiece. Phil
I've been working on your exercises for a couple of weeks now and I'm not sure wether I should deep throat my mouthpiece or just put my bottom lip where the reed and mpc join.
I don't have that much trouble slurring the octaves and so on but the problem is the sound really.
With the mouthpiece way down in my mouth, the sound is much more full and earthy, more present but it's really harsh and lacks control over nuances and accents. I sound like beginners honking the hell out of the sax. Tonguing seems more difficult to apprehend as well. Subtone is really hard as I'm used to use my bottom lip a lot to use that technique.
So Phil, correct me if I'm wrong. Basically what you're trying to tell us is to rely only on air support, diaphragm and throat rather than compensate with lips/embouchure changes? And if I'm sounding so harsh with more mouthpiece in my mouth it means I have to learn how to blow into that thing?
Do you think your exercises will in the end allow my playing/sound more versatility or just more bullocks, or both?
So Phil, correct me if I'm wrong. Basically what you're trying to tell us is to rely only on air support, diaphragm and throat rather than compensate with lips/embouchure changes? And if I'm sounding so harsh with more mouthpiece in my mouth it means I have to learn how to blow into that thing?
Do you think your exercises will in the end allow my playing/sound more versatility or just more bullocks, or both?
Yes, just try and use the support although you may automatically use your embouchure too. However, if you're taking enough mouthpiece it won't have much effect. The sound will become more refined unless you have a mouthpiece that's naturally unrefined and you've been compensating all this time. This is possible. Phil
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