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Tone Production

305K views 662 replies 159 participants last post by  CaillouSax 
#1 ·
I'm tired of mouthpiece makers lying to players telling them that they can get a potential customer to sound like someone, that's a bunch of BS. I'm laying out what I learned from Joe Allard, Herk Faranda, and Vick Morosco here and I’ll elaborate if some of you guys practice them and report back to me. My feeling is that the books and exercises available for sale are unnecessarily complicated. So, here's some stuff just to get started.

Play middle F without the octave key and using your throat, "slide" it down to low F. There’s no rhythm so hold the note for as long as you have to until it sounds low F but do it with the air stream and while opening your throat and supporting your diaphragm. It should be CLEAN and don't use your embouchure. If there's a gurgle or some distortion in between then keep trying until it's CLEAN. Use your diaphragm and open your throat more as you go to the low F and keep the diaphragm SUPPORTED. Do this exercise chromatically down to low Bb. It gets harder as you go down but the benefits will come by just practicing it. You should probably do it on F and E before you venture further down the register but trying to do it on D or Eb won't hurt because it's harder and may give you insight as to how to do it but if you're not successful then stop and take a break because you don't want to reinforce bad habits.

Also, practice scales on your mouthpiece when you can't have your horn with you. Remember, use your throat. The embouchure should be as loose and relaxed as possible.

Joe Allard used to tell me that the only pressure should be from the bottom of the mouthpiece using your teeth. Just enough to FEEL the reed through the bottom lip with your teeth using the muscles in your JAW, not your facial muscles and this "posture' should remain FIXED. The jaw muscles are much stronger than the facial muscles thus easier to control. This doesn't necessarily mean that you won't use your facial muscles at all but it’s just meant to lead you in the right direction.

Also, from now on, don't think of the extreme upper register as being hard to get, think of it as being easy, it’s in fact so easy that one thinks that you have to “try” in order to get them to play. The change in your embouchure stature should be SUBTLE, understand? I can get a variety of notes out using just one fingering but I don't change my embouchure, I alter my throat cavity and I hear the note a moment before I play it. Also, this is VERY important, take as much mouthpiece as possible. This may feel uncomfortable at first and the sound will be unrefined but in a few days it will feel natural and you will find the place where the mouthpiece will give you the optimum results.

I've watched many great players and the great majority of them take huge amounts of mouthpiece. Do this stuff for a few weeks then get back to me and I'll give you an exercise that along with these will enable you to play any mouthpiece and essentially sound the same. YOU will be the maker of the sound and not the mouthpiece or horn. By the way, do this as much as possible but if you don't have a lot of time just do them for a few minutes when you start your practice session and a few minutes at the end. If you're having a long practice session the try and do it in the middle too.

Phil
 
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#333 ·
"Check's in the mail."

Do I think I read something that I didn't? I think it should be "the check and a rubber blank" is in the mail, wot? ;)
 
#336 ·
speyman said:
I wrote my check on the Bank of the Arkansas River. You have it any day Phil.
Hey Speyman,

Just put that check in a bottle and throw it in the river. When it gets to me in a few days, I'll just add my check and let her flow on down to Phil. Of course, Phil will have to take a trip to New Orleans to fish it out of water. But hey, it's cheaper and probably more realiable than the post office. ;)

PS: I know you meant "Bank" of the Arkansas River rather than "the bank of the Arkansas River". But since I live near the latter, I just couldn't resist the pun.
 
#337 ·
Bank of Arkansas River

Enviroguy said:
Hey Speyman,

Just put that check in a bottle and throw it in the river. When it gets to me in a few days, I'll just add my check and let her flow on down to Phil. Of course, Phil will have to take a trip to New Orleans to fish it out of water. But hey, it's cheaper and probably more realiable than the post office. ;)

PS: I know you meant "Bank" of the Arkansas River rather than "the bank of the Arkansas River". But since I live near the latter, I just couldn't resist the pun.
Yea, wrote that check for Phil while standing on the bank of the Arkansas River. The N.O. thing may be a good idea. English is not one of my strong hands but you know there is other stuff.
 
#338 ·
Sorry guys,
I am in this thread only now... Still trying to understand Phil's concepts from the very first msg.
My main question is a bit "silly" and is related to idiomatic/translations issues. I'm a brazilian (we speak Portuguese):
- When you say "take in more mouthpiece" you mean that mpc will be more inside of the mouth or more outside? Sorry again... Tks!
Regards
 
#339 ·
Claudio Marcolino said:
Sorry guys,
I am in this thread only now... Still trying to understand Phil's concepts from the very first msg.
My main question is a bit "silly" and is related to idiomatic/translations issues. I'm a brazilian (we speak Portuguese):
- When you say "take in more mouthpiece" you mean that mpc will be more inside of the mouth or more outside? Sorry again... Tks!
Regards
Phil means more mouthpiece inside your mouth.
good luck with the exercises:)
 
#341 ·
Hey Phil, there's a point on my tenor mouthpiece that I start going sharp if I take more in. Is my throat not open enuff?
 
#342 ·
The octave exercises came pretty easily, I've been working out of Liebman's book for about a year and he has a lot of overtone exercises like that.

The "more mouthpiece" thing was really tough with high baffled RPC, real unpleasant sounding, but I pulled out my Link STM (that never played real well) and find that the Link is sounding good and playing easier than it ever did before. I'll get back to the RPC in a while, I don't want to damage my family's ears.

Still working on mo' mouthpiece, and I think it will pay off. Looking forward to the next tone tip of the month or biennium or whatever it turns out to be. Thanks Phil!
 
#343 ·
Hmmm... I have been using an RPC. Doesn't sound unpleasant, just sharp as I take more in. We aren't supposed to blow long tones FFF are we Phil?

I have a STM 7* that I don't like. Guess I could try it...

Oh, and if the $22.50 doesn't come with 'trade secrets' on mouthpiece configurations, I won't be participating.;)
 
#345 ·
Inquiring Minds...............

I have not posted in this thread, but facinated by the topic, I have read it completely through at least 6 times. Did Phil Barone really just string people along for 18 pages of posts promising the best information would be forthcoming and then just stop and demand that the followers of his exercises send him $22.50 to get the final piece of the puzzle? Or am I missing something here.

Is Phil going to come back and say "just kidding, I just wanted you to practice some more"? Or is the commercial thing for real? Was this thread really about altruisitcally helping sax players to get a better sound? Or was it a clever and inexpensive way to flash http://www.philbarone.com/ in front of SOTW members 70 times (yes I counted them) and get us all ready to handle a Phil Barone (Tah! Dah!) mouthpiece?

Please someone tell me I'm wrong. Maybe because I'm from "backwoods" Utah I don't handle the New York "Chutzpah" very well. Everyone certainly has a right to earn a living, but why not be up front and above board about it? If I am wrong here (and I hope I am) I will be the first one to send Phil a nice letter of apology.
 
#347 ·
It could be a "test balloon"...

floated out there to sample everyone's reaction - both to the idea, and the amount...



Hey Phil...I think the dollar amount would be quite a value for the "lesson"...

but there's another "cost" to consider...one that you might have to "pay"...

you have to ask yourself if it's worth it?? ;)
 
#349 ·
SaxxMan said:
It could be a "test balloon"...

floated out there to sample everyone's reaction - both to the idea, and the amount...

Hey Phil...I think the dollar amount would be quite a value for the "lesson"...

but there's another "cost" to consider...one that you might have to "pay"...

you have to ask yourself if it's worth it?? ;)
So in a few days when he realizes the checks aren't pouring in from the Bank of the Arkansas River, he comes back and says "Hey everybody, just kidding!"

What if he IS joking and somebody sends him the $22.50?:shock:
 
#351 ·
jbtsax said:
What if 22 of you send me a dollar (I'll chip in the 50 cents and postage) and I'll buy the secret ending from Phil and share it with the rest of you?
Shhhhh. Man, you can't say that stuff here. The jig will be up and Phil will just refuse to sell to you. Meet me under the bridge at midnight. Wear a blue flower in your lapel so I know it's you. There, we will hatch our evil plan. :twisted:
 
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